Nanny wants £5 p/h gross?!

[TheDetective]

Hi, I'm new to looking at the option of nannies. I've always used nursery/childminder if I've needed childcare.
However I'm now a single parent working unsociable hours, and realistically I'm in need of a nanny.
I've used the childcare.co.uk site to start my search. One lady I contacted sounds ideal. She is coming for an informal chat next week.
We discussed pay, or rather, she brought up the matter. She said she charges £5 per hour, gross. She said she would usually charge per child, but as I am needing her for 2 set days per week from 7am-8.30pm as a long term arrangement that she would simply charge me the £5 p/h.
I thought minimum wage was increasing to £7.20 in April? Shouldn't I be paying that? If she has set the rate, is that allowed? I have no idea really.
Any kind advice would be appreciated (please bear in mind I'm new to this option, and I am an NHS healthcare professinal - not on mega wages!).

Sounds more like a childminder than a nanny. Perhaps she's misunderstood what you need?

I agree it sounds like a childminder.
Is she clear that itceould be nannying in your home, not hers & she would be your employee.

Yes childminder or she intends to do it cash in hand because she's claiming benefits?

Is this in your own home? So she'd have no overheads and presumably eat your food etc? Childminders in my are charge £4 but I spose they can have up to 3 kids, but then there's overheads etc....
Not used a nanny myself, but would you be expected to pay for groups/soft play etc on top?
If ur happy with experience and references and your child likes her I wouldn't measure her worth by how much she charges. Good luck!

She sounds dodgy/inexperienced! Nannies don't usually charge per child, so that doesn't ring true. Does she have another job? Is she expecting cash in hand? If so, I wouldn't touch her with a bargepole as you will be liable if she is caught out for underpaying tax. Does she have qualifications, references, insurance? Qualifications aren't everything, as I'm sure many will jump in to say, but with neither training nor experience, I similarly wouldn't even consider her, and nor would I consider anyone without both references and insurance. And yes you do need to pay NMW, and holiday pay, and tax and NI. If you have never done it before, you would probably be best getting a nanny payroll company to do that for you, and they may also be able to advise on contracts, another necessity.

If it is for a nanny (what ofsted term as a home child carer) that is ridiculously cheap.

I'm a nanny. My charges not only include my time caring for children but also my DBS costs, first aid training, public liability insurance, car insurance, ofsted reg fee etc.

Please double check her thoroughly.

The 'charge per child' thing does sound more like a childminder than a nanny. I agree you need to clarify.

Only need to pay employees NMW, self-employed people can charge what they like, and you are not responsible for their tax.

Nannies are not able to be self employed though caroldecker exceot in specific circumstances such as short term maternity nannies.

They have to be employees.

2 set days per week from 7am-8.30pm as a long term arrangement would be employment if they are coming to your home to provide care. So yes, I agree that National Minimum Wage would apply, as would National Living Wage from April.

It seems very strange that they want only £5 an hour. In some areas a nanny may be paid £7-8 but many especially part-time will be wanting more than that. So why is she so cheap?

If you are going to employ a nanny for 2 days a week at your home, then please be a responsible employer and do things by the book. Walk away from this individual, find someone who wants to do the job on your terms - you decide how much you are paying and you offer the job.

She initially asked if she could care for them from her own home. I declined this as my reasons for choosing a nanny over a CM is because of the unsocial hours and having to get them up, out the house at 6.30pm, and only get them in to bed at 9pm.

I discussed registering with OFSTED, she agreed she would be happy to do this. She is aware our arrangement would be totally above board as far as I am concerned.

She does have insurance, and qualifications. She is in her 50's and has been a nanny, a childminder, a classroom assistant and a foster carer.

She has an arrangement with another parent who yes, does pay cash, and she cares for them in her house.

She sounded extremely knowledgable in childcare, and particularly when I discussed my middle son who is rather challenging. I did get a good feel about her, and liked her sensible, caring, but no nonsense attitude.

"She has an arrangement with another parent who yes, does pay cash, and she cares for them in her house." That could be a breech of childcare legislation and tax legislation. Clearly don't know for sure as don't have all the information but it's potentially very dodgy. As a former childminder she should be aware of both childcare legislation and tax legislation as she would have had to conform to those when working as a childminder.

Don't worry nannynick, I have to do everything above board. Due to being a single parent, having to work partime, 70% of my childcare is paid for by tax credits.

As an aside, you give a lot of good advice on here (I've been doing my research), could you give me an idea of hidden costs for using a nanny. So far I've accounted for trips/travelling costs, ssp, insurance, possibly using a payroll company, potential for tax, definitely NI contribution.

It seems daunting, and not for 'people like me'!

Additionally, when you declare your childcare costs for tax credit purposes, can any of the above be used in your claim? I'm going to assume the kitty money won't, but what about the other things which are a direct childcare cost? Not sure if that's something you can help on. I will ring the TC helplinefor guidance as soon as I get chance.

If you like her then you can offer her a job on your terms. So you can offer her say £7.50 gross per hour, to work 27 hours per week all year round.

You would be paying

£202.50 gross per week / £10,530.00 per year
Employers NI is roughly £334 a year (this is paid to HMRC on your nanny's behalf, deducted from their salary)
Employee NI is roughly £297 a year.
You would have payroll admin to do - if you outsource that it may be around £200 per year.

You would have activity/outings costs.

So your costs could be in the region of £11,200 perhaps.

To find someone who is willing to work 13.5 hours per day is wonderful, so if she will do things properly with you being the employer paying her a salary, then go for it.

For tax credits purposes you can include the cost of payroll admin and employers NI in your childcare cost figure.

It is anticipated that you will also be able to do the same when Tax Free Childcare starts next year.

The care does need to be provided by a registered/approved provider, so having her register with Ofsted will be essential (I presume you are in England). That is quite costly for the nanny and it does take time.

Ofsted Registration information for parents employing a nanny.

When you say insurance, what insurance do you mean?

Definitely use a payroll company who will hold your hand through the process, be there at then of a phone and/or email for any queries and do everything for you.

Contract of employment - you must provide one. You can use templates from sites like NannyJob.co.uk but you can get a contract especially created for you by the payroll company... NannyPaye charge £24.99 for a contract as long as you use their payroll service.

Payroll is cheaper to do Monthly than weekly, as there are physically less payslips.

You will also have to pay a pension contribution for her

You may have heard about Pensions for nannies. As a new employer, you will not need to provide a pension until November 2017. At that point contributions start at 1% employer, 1% employee. So around £105.30 in terms of your cost based on gross annual pay of £10530 though by that time salary may have gone up and the rules around pensions may have changed. There will also be some pension admin, which the payroll company may do for you but would charge £60-£100 a year. So come November 2017, add say £200 a year to your cost calculations.

She sounded extremely knowledgeable in childcare

she cant be that knowledgeable if wanted to care for them in her house - thats illegal as a nanny and unless she is registered as a cm she cant!!

and warning bells would ring big time that she only wants £5gross!!!

so are you all insisting that the lady is a murderer or a thief?

No, she probably means well and maybe is not aware of how things work these days. She may have been a childminder 20-30 years ago, so things change over time and she may not realise that things they did then they can't do now.

So far i do not see anything wrong with the lady. If there is a problem based on misunderstanding, it surely can be fixed. Why do you have to ring bells as if the lady is a witch?

Over the years she has been a nanny cm classroom Assistant - she must have an idea on rough wages let alone nmw so for someone to offer their services very poorly paid (and from op post seems she have quals as well) so why would a qualified childcare worker offer to work for much less then the going rate

Doesn't make sense

Didn't say she was a witch - just alarm bells would ring as she is wanting very low paid work

Maybe she is not greedy, just wanting to cover up for the increase of the rents.

Thank you for the replies, fantastic information - I really appreciate it.
I'd figured out most of the extras, but wasn't able to get accurate figures for them! I did know about the pension, forgot to include that one!

She doesn't seem to need the work to be honest. From what she said, she is doing it for the enjoyment of caring for small children. Personally, it isn't something I would want to do for £5 an hour, but then my job is something many probably wouldn't want to do for the wage I get either!

I'm going to offer £7.50 an hour, gross. I will explain that everything needs to be above board as far as I am concerned. Therefore she should receive at least NMW, a pension, and be entitled to SSP.

I'll update on Tuesday after I have met her.

She last childminded 10 years ago. She has been a foster carer for that time, only starting as a nanny (although sounds more like a CM from her other arrangement) in September.