Have you ever reported a 'childminder' who is not registered?

[blueberryupsidedown]

What is the process like?

Out of five people who provide 'childminding' services at our school (that I know of), only two of us are registered... and one is looking after two pre-school children and picks up her own child from school so I know about her and she told me she was not registered...

I am not sure what to do!

Thing us it would be hard for ofsted to prove, they'd need to prove payment was being made and if she tells them it isn't I doubt they'd do much. Are they definitely not nieces/nephews/grandchildren too? You don't need to register to care for them and get paid.

You do have to register with ofsted if you care for the children in your own home, which they do. One of them looks after her brother's children but also other children (of friends) regularly, ie a specific number of days a week (she lives on my street). The other one I am not 100% sure, but she did tell me that she looks after the children in her own home and she has them two days a week.

An unregistered cm was reported at our school & from what I gather Ofsted paid her a visit, she said she just helps out a friend occasionally as a favour as they were friends of her own DC the same age so they went away without further investigation! She still looks after the same 2 siblings (1 pre-school & 1 school age) 3 days a week term time & definitely isn't registered.
Not saying you shouldn't report them but don't be surprised if nothing comes of it

Well, she can look after her nephews and nieces without being registered, and if she says she looks after the friend's children as a favour/without payment then Ofsted are unlikely to be able to prove otherwise.

Just checked ofsted site and you def don't need to register if you're related so that one is ok.

Just to add that you don't need to register if offering up to two hours per day per child, like I do for one child twice a week and ad hoc for pre-schoolers (again only two hours).
I get paid for these hours, and am in the process of registering as a child minder. I have been totally up front with parents who enquire (there have been many who want to pay for more hours but it is illegal hence I only have one regular child)
Please make sure you get your facts absolutely correct as it can cause so much heartache for everyone. I had someone 'enquire' to my CM development officer and I felt awful. But I know, she knows and Ofsted know that I'm working within the law and have turned away lots of parents because I refuse to break it. Cannot wait to be registered though as I feel quite vulnerable. I wonder if those who mind over 8's ever get this?

I personally think if you are helping a friend or family by watching their child paid or not then it is a private arrangement and nobody's business and no need to be registered. What I disagree with is advertising yourself as. A childminder and taking on children who are strangers to you. Tht is wrong and needs reporting. I am a registered childminder btw .

Why is it bothering you, OP? Is it any of your business what arrangements other parents make for the care of their own children?

Why do you care if the parents don't?

How do you even know that she gets paid? I look after two little girls on a regular basis (twice a week), do the school run etc. I wouldn't dream of taking payment as their mum is a friend and I do it as a favour.

At the end of the day, I think it should be for parents to decide whether or not they want to pay a friend for unregistered childcare. Are you concerned that you're missing out on potential business?

It is annoying when you are jumping through hoops to abide by the law (even if that law is stupid) and others are openly flouting it and making a profit. A profit that could be yours if others weren't acting illegally.

I also wonder how these non-registered childminders pay tax. Can you declare illegal earnings to HMRC?

I wouldn't consider it any of my business, personally. (Again, not a fan of Ofsted). As far as I'm concerned, if a parent would prefer to have their 3 year old looked after by someone they know and trust, and are happy to pay them to do so, then that's fine. They may prefer this arrangement to using an Ofsted registered childminder that neither they nor their children know as well.

At the end of the day, I feel it should be up to parents to decide who they would prefer to look after their children.

Personally, if I had the need, I'd rather my DS was looked after by 'Aunty Eileen' - motherly 50 something who has known him since he was born and who has raised 4 children of her own. She isn't a 'registered' CM - but DS would be happier having her pick him up from school and look after him for a couple of hours than he would be if I approached the registered CM I see advertising locally. I'm sure she's very good - but I don't know her, and neither does DS. I'd far rather he was with someone he knows and loves rather than a stranger whom Ofsted assure me is suitable.

That's not my question, though, sowornout. Sorry, I do see your point, but it's not what I'm after.

I have absolutely no trouble and am quite jealous of people who have trusted family members living nearby to look after their children. But I do have a problem with people advertising themselves as childminders if they are not registered had have not had the appropriate training, insurance, support, etc.

And no, they cannot register as childminder/self employed with the tax people so they don't pay their taxes.

What I am concerned about deep down is that the children are in a vulnerable position. I am not concerned about my own profit, I couldn't take on more children anyway. Also, it's not that hard to register, to be honest, so I wonder what they have to hide.

But are they actually advertising themselves as childminders? You said in your OP that they were looking after the children of relatives and friends.

A lot of parents would prefer to leave their children with a trusted friend, rather than a childminder, regardless of training etc. When dd was small, I checked out a lot of childminders but wasn't impressed and eventually paid a friend to look after her instead - in our own home, so it was all legitimate!

Sorry, that wasn't intended as a criticism of childminders in general - just the ones that I looked at! I know some are absolutely fab!! :)

outragedfromleeds it is not against the law for people to look after other people's kids for payment. It may be in breach of OFSTED regulations but that is a regulatory, not a legal, matter.

Mendi, it IS illegal to care for someone else's child for more than 2 hours per day and accepting payment.

Why would anyone be bothered to be registered pay all the insurance, do all the courses, have their houses checked, if it wasn't necessary.

This drives me mad, why do people think its OK? I am currently having to get a CRB check for my 16 yo daughter which is a right pain as she doesn't have a passport and was adopted, so doesn't have a birth certifcate from birth, so we are struggling to find 5 forms of ID for her (from a list that includes mortgage statements, full drivers licence, credit card statements ect..) OFSTED have sent a letter threatening that as they cant "prove if she is a suitable person to be part of the setting, she will be unable to remain here"....

We are having to pay £80 to get her a passport to prove her identity.

This is her home and she is being treated like a stranger off the street. I don't put myself through this for fun, I do it because it's the law.

Stupid as it may all be there are reasons for this, due to children being mis-treated, cared for inappropriately, and to ensure that there is a basic standard of care for children. CRB checks, insurance, first aid. It doesn't alway work, but at least it is better than nothing at all.

Woman down the road - who I know has been reported but denied minding so carries on regardless, no insurance on her or her car for transporting children, no first aid, no CRB for anyone living in her home, and I know this as she regularly boasts about not having to do "all that pointless rubbish".

I guess the point is unless you know for sure what qualifications someone has and for how long they are caring for, and being paid you may never know if they are breaching any regs.

If you are concerned for a child contact the local child minding development team who are really helpful.

I do pay taxes by the way, you can register as self employed, as I have done. I'm highly experienced, qualified level 6, hold QTS, EYPS, CRB within last two years (am still waiting for my DBS check to come through but my husbands has already arrived) Paediatric first aid, Designated Person for child protection, have completed my CYPOP 5 and had my portfolio passed. Have many, many, many policies and procedures in place, fully prepped welcome pack, risk assessments, planning, SEF etc etc etc
I don't need to do any of this for the 2 hours work twice a week that I do, but I do because not only is it best practice by my standards but I am prepared to expand when I can do.
I do not use my car and so am waiting for Ofsted to come and check me out and then Insurance will be in place.

Again, I would like to know the ins and outs of someone's arrangements before I'd report them-Ofsted won't have a record of them if they are not registered so I'd call the local child minding team first. I admit to making the mistake of calling myself a 'Child minder' before I knew I couldn't and changed it to 'Child carer' Someone is now going to tell me I can't call myself that either...

Mendi

'Anyone who is regularly looking after children under eight years of age who are not the parents or close relatives of the children in their care, for reward (payment), in their own home, is required to register with Ofsted. The penalties for illegally childminding without registration are a substantial fine, imprisonment or both.'

source here

'You cannot be a childminder for children aged under eight if you are not registered on the Childcare Register, unless you are exempt from doing so. If you do such childminding we will take action and may take you to court.'

Ofsted website

Probably a good idea if your research what you post before you post it Mendi, otherwise you could post inaccurate shite information. HTH.

OP I don't think you really have any need to worry about the children they're not really in any danger because of a lack of registration. Parents should be trusted to pick their own childcare without the government sticking their noses in. Unless you see bad practise don't worry on that front.

I can't stand people who think the law applies to everyone except them when it suits them to "bend" the rules. And tax fraud is hurting every one of us, either because we have to pay more or because we don't get the services we deserve. I can't understand anyone (especially a teacher) letting someone who is patently dishonest look after their children. What else would they lie about, and what sort of role model are those children getting, from their so-called childminder or indeed their own parents?

"Parents should be trusted to pick their own childcare without the government sticking their noses in."

But that childcare needs to be checked by someone, to ensure a basic standard.

Lots of parents don't know exactly what is required, and lots of "childminders" lie - as the lady who lives down the road does, telling them its not necessary to be registered and who does it hurt?

Maybe the government shouldn't stick their noses in when I drive above the speeding limit on an empty road, after all who am I hurting? or maybe they shouldn't stick their noses in when some parents don't ensure their children go to school?

The rules (if a bit manic and frustrating at times) are there for a reason, due to past issues with people not caring for children in an appropriate way.

Can you imagine if something happened to a child, one of the first things that is usually screamed is "what is the government going to do about this".

'But that childcare needs to be checked by someone, to ensure a basic standard'

Yes, the parents! I'm not suggesting people chuck their kids at passing strangers.

'Lots of parents don't know exactly what is required, and lots of "childminders" lie - as the lady who lives down the road does, telling them its not necessary to be registered and who does it hurt?'

This is a separate issue. Whilst the law remains that people must be registered I agree they should be. My point is that maybe the law needs changing, then people wouldn't need to lie.

'Maybe the government shouldn't stick their noses in when I drive above the speeding limit on an empty road, after all who am I hurting? or maybe they shouldn't stick their noses in when some parents don't ensure their children go to school?'

These two examples are not the same. The law should govern your driving because it involves others outside your immediate family and is significantly more likely to cuase harm than letting your friend look after your baby. Inside the immediate family the government should only get involved in cases of negelct or abuse. So a family who make the choice to homeschool should be (and are) allowed to do so. In the same way someone should be allowed to choose a family friend to look after their child. If the child is not attending school because the parents are neglecting them, then absolutely the government should (and does) get involved.

'The rules (if a bit manic and frustrating at times) are there for a reason, due to past issues with people not caring for children in an appropriate way.'

Nannies are not governed in this way. Are there many cases of nannies abusing or neglecting children? More than by childminders or nurseries who are regulated by Ofsted?

I think we should have registered childminders. I think we should have a 'basic registration' like we do for nannies and I think parents should be able to pay anyone they like, registered or not to care for their child. In this situation I would suggest the person is only able to look after the children from two families in the same way as nannies. I think we need to stop assuming that parents are idiots and provide much more information about childcare choices and what it all means, allowing intelligent people to make informed decisions.

I would be happy if childminders just needed to be registered to make sure they were CRB checked and first aid trained and insured. But the whole EYFS stuff is enough to put anyone off. Pointless paperwork for babies, or mums minding after the school run.

The thing is, the standards imposed by the registration process are so basic that they aren't particularly helpful to parents. I looked at a range of childcare options and wasn't satisfied with any of them before deciding to leave dd with a friend instead. As I said earlier, it was perfectly legal as she came to our house, but the standard of care wouldn't have been any less if dd had gone to her home.

As a parent, I want to be able to make my own choices about who I trust to look after my child, and if I judge that a friend is better equipped to do that, I would resent the state telling me to use an inferior choice instead. FWIW, I paid my friend twice as much as the most expensive childminder we looked at, so this was definitely a positive choice that we made, and not a cheap workaround. We also paid her tax, NI etc.

I do agree that people should not be able to advertise as childminders if they are not properly registered and vetted, but I feel that there should be room in the system for parents to exercise their own judgement and discretion if they choose to leave their kids with a trusted friend rather than a registered stranger.