What are your thoughts on other people employing your nanny (or if you are a nanny, getting other work)?

[Foxinsocks]

We employ our nanny for 4 days a week with an option to use the other day. She is paid well above the average salary. Both our children are at school but we pay her for a full day as we need her to cover holidays and sickness. Both my husband and I have very full time jobs with travel etc. She's a live out nanny. So although she is paid for a full day, theoretically, on a school day, she wouldn't need to turn up till after school (dh drops them off with the option of asking her to do it if he needs to leave earlier).

She's pregnant at the moment and had seemed very tired but I put it down to the pregnancy. Then I bumped into another mother in the class who told me she had 'employed' our nanny to cover a few mornings a week while she is doing teacher training. The nanny has to be at their house by 7am, gets her child ready for school, then drops him off at school. It just so happens that luckily dh hasn't needed her in the morning for a while otherwise I'm not sure what she would do on these days (I guess bring this child to our house!).

Dh is about to go away for a month and she asked me (before i knew this) exactly what hours she needed to cover (all the hours would be the hours we had contracted her for) which I thought was unusual given that she is paid to work these hours anyway but I now see why she was asking fgs.

Another mother also texted me for her numbers a few weeks ago and it appears as though she is just filling her time working for other people who I bet aren't paying her properly either (I pay her with PAYE/NI etc. but I can guarantee the others are doing cash in hand otherwise I would know about it!).

What are your thoughts....

I would be fuming.
Does your contract state she is employed during those hours for sole care of your children?
I would call her bluff and ask her to drop the kids off at school but I am a bit of a wimp. The sensible thing would be to discuss it with her and how she intends to fulfill her obligations to you.
If your children are sick then she must be available to have sole care of them.

I think it's incredibly dishonest of her to be taking paying work for the hours which you are already paying her on the 4 days a week.

I can't understand why you haven't asked her to do nursery duties in those hours that your children are at school. She could cook them meals as well, and maybe even some light housekeeping duties (emphasis on LIGHT).

On the 5th day, unless you are PAYING her for that option of using her then it's fair enough that she is taking some paid work.

I think overall you are being taken for a ride. You are certainly not utilising her in the way you should have been to get some decent value out of all of the money you are paying her.

I might be OK with this if they had cleared it with me first (conditions would be that there really was nothing to be done in the mornings and they were willing to cancel the other jobs at short notice if I needed them), but without that, I'd be very annoyed. In my contracts I have a clause which says that nanny isn't allowed to take other work (paid or unpaid) whilst they are being paid by me, without my prior consent.

If you haven't asked her to do nursery duties while children are at school, then the very least she could do is to ensure she gets a good rest during the day, especially if she is pregnant!

When our nanny found herself with plenty of time off when ds started preschool, she did a few hours here and there for other people. But they always asked me before they asked her, she always checked with me, and it was always very clear to everyone that if I needed her (e.g. children sick) then we would take priority. I didn't mind in the least, and in fact one neighbour actually used to pay me a small hourly rate for the inconvenience, which turned it into more of a nanny share. But I'd be livid if I found out our nanny had been working for other people without telling my knowledge - presumably if you actually needed her, she wouldn't be available?

Another nanny here that has a contract that states that I cannot undertake paid work during my contacted hours without proir consent of my employer - in fact it has been in the contacts of my last 3 nanny positions and I presumed it was quite standard, check your contract as you may well have this clause and overlooked/forgotten about it.

Contract aside I think your nanny is out of line and should have spoken to you before doing any additional work.

Well out of line. Your nanny should not be doing other work during the hours you have contracted them to work, on contracted days - so the 4 days per week.
The other days of the week are a different situation I feel though as you have not contracted them to work those days.

Working a job for CIH whist she is being paid to do another one?

No way... not on my shift, lady.

I would remind her of her contractual hours, and remind her that she works for me (and no one else) in that time. That's what your contract says, right?

I would prbably give this reminder in the form of a verbal warning, as working for someone else on my time is pretty far over the line into outrageous behaviour. How could she not know this is not okay?

I would also, incidentally, take issue with her taking additional work when it is impacting her ability to do the job I hired her for (i.e. too tired for my job because she started another at 7:00am).

She is massively taking the piss here.

Going against the grain here....I think as long as she is available to work for you within her contracted hours (i.e. she will drop any extra work if you need her) then it isn't really a problem. If you'd asked her to do a school run/sick care/holiday care and she couldn't due to working somewhere else then of course completely out of order.

If she's pregnant, going on maternity leave at some point, possibly worrying about money, someone asks her to do a a couple of hours ad hoc childcare during a time that you never use then I can see why she'd do it.

Whilst she didn't tell you about it, she's not exactly keeping it a secret by dropping off kids at the same school that your children go to.

If I were you, I wouldn't tell her I know and ask her to do a school drop off/few things during the day and see if she is available as I think that makes the difference.

Also, there are legal implications for you, as well. As her employer you have a duty of care to ensure that she doesn't work too hard and harm herself, particularly as she is pregnant. Now that you are aware that she is overdoing things, you MUST talk to her about it.

She sounds very industrious. Good on her.

agree as long as she is available and ready to work for you then not a problem

though wouldnt have hurt to mention it to you

i dont have that clause in my contract - refused to have it - but dont know why really, as have never worked for anyone else during working hours so not a problem iyswim

Thanks

She does have nursery duties but I don't dictate when they are done iyswim. So as long as by the end of the week, it's all done I am not particularly bothered if it's all done on one day or spread over a few

I feel she's taking the piss too. She also took the job when she was 14 weeks pregnant without telling me. I know by law she didn't have to but now she is about to go off on maternity leave and I am really struggling to find cover and it means the kids have yet another person to get used to (last nanny had her 2nd baby only in may and left us permanently to be a full time mum so it's been 3 nannies for the kids in one year).

It's in the contract, I could easily sack her over it but I'm not going to. She is off on maternity leave soon so we will see what happens.... I was fuming when I found out as the early mornings are making her knackered and she didn't tell me either! Argh

Am also concerned about tax implications as really if this is a permanent relationship with the other family then she has 2 jobs officially.

Anyway she is off soon. We will see if she comes back. She says she does but things change when you have a baby.

If she does want to come back, I will renegotiate her contract anyway as I suspect she'll want to bring the baby to work so I will lay cards on the table then.

Tbh, I'd sack her now if you've got grounds. Then you can get someone else permanent instead of having to wait for her to decide when she's coming back.

I know, I have got grounds but she is naive rather than malicious if that makes sense - she definitely loves the kids - and it's her first baby too. I think she's made a mistake as much as anything else but she's so close to going off, I'm going to let her just go and have the baby and we can discuss everything when/if she confirms her return.

I would mention it as she's getting paid twice and it might affect the amount of tax you need to deduct. I hope she isn't doing this so she can claim 2 lots of SMP.

The working whilst on call wouldn't necessarily bother me but the tiredness and secrecy would.

Hi, I somehow came across your posts this morning, and wanted to ask if you have yet found a replacement?

I have just very recently returned from working as a Nanny in Paris for the past three years and am now looking to find a nice family again, here in Essex. I have excellent references from the families I worked for.

By the way, I think at the very least she should have cleared it with you first especially as she is contractually bound AND paid by you for those hours.

Am also concerned about tax implications as really if this is a permanent relationship with the other family then she has 2 jobs officially.

As long as you are contracted to pay a gross salary (not net) there won't be any tax implications. Even if you have a net salary, the set of circumstances that could lead to a problem are very limited.

Oops, I meant to quote that - try again:

"Am also concerned about tax implications as really if this is a permanent relationship with the other family then she has 2 jobs officially."

As long as you are contracted to pay a gross salary (not net) there won't be any tax implications. Even if you have a net salary, the set of circumstances that could lead to a problem are very limited.

And for what its worth, this is at the very least irresoponsible and disrespectful of her, and (although it depends on what your contract says) probably a breach of contract, perhaps sufficient to warrant dismissal without notice.

Silly girl, I'd go easy on her given her situation but I would certainly let her know how unhappy I felt about what she has done, and reinforced that it must not happen again without discussing it with me first. I'd also point out that if she takes on any other employment while I am paying her SMP, she must tell me and her SMP will stop.

If she was pregnant when she took the job, she's not entitled to SMP is she????

Chitchat - I thought that too, but it seems the rules on smp have changed. It now does not matter how long you have been in a job as long as you notify your employer 15 weeks before the baby is due, you are enttled to maternity leave. Payments of smp depend on if you have paid enough ni (can't remember how many weeks) but it doesn't all have to be with this employer.

nbee84 - this is from the Directgov website:

"Who can get SMP?

To qualify for SMP you must have been:

?employed by the same employer continuously for at least 26 weeks into the 15th week before the week your baby is due (the qualifying week)
?earning on average an amount which at least equals the lower earnings limit which applies on the Saturday at the end of your qualifying week"

"What happens if you can't get SMP?

If you cannot get SMP your employer must fill in form SMP1 and give this to you. On the form, your employer must say why SMP has not been paid. If you have more than one employer, you must get form SMP1 from each employer.

Form SMP1 is used to support a claim for Maternity Allowance (MA). "

I really don't believe she is entitled to SMP.