CM & domestic violence [sad]

[HavishamFish]

Hi ? name changed for this because it?s not really about me, iyswim, and there are posters who know me in RL and could identify the others involved.
My 3 dc are looked after by a CM, who is brilliant. For as long as we?ve known her (7 years) she has been in a pretty miserable marriage. About 6 weeks ago, her h attacked her , was arrested and bailed. He has since been living with his parents as per bail conditions.
She has been to see me today (she looks after the kids during term time only), to say that she is thinking of taking him back. She?s tried to drop the charges but CPS have decided the case will go ahead. Social Services have been involved (her dd, and mine, witnessed the incident ) and have told her that she is obliged to inform Ofsted.
She is very worried that Ofsted will de-register her. Can anyone tell me if this is likely?
My personal opinion is that she?d be mad to ever let the scumbag over the threshold again, and if this happens dh and I would have some serious thinking to do re: her looking after the dc (which would be awful for everybody ? she is a lovely woman and fantastic with them), but for now I?d really appreciate some guidance about the Ofsted ramifications.

If he is charged then its highly unlikely that Ofsted will allow him to be on the premises at all when she is working - at I think that is best case scenario.

If she takes him back, he wil not pass a CRB, if he takes himm back Ofsted I am sure will consider her suitablility as a minder....

no one can predict what Ofsted will say or do.

How wonderful she has your support though - perhaps you could take advice in how to support her best through one of the specialised agencies for DV?

Thanks - that's what she thought.

She did say that she'd be willing to look after the kids at our place if it came to it, thereby becoming technically a nanny rather than a CM (?), which would remove her appalling h from the situation at least.

Wish she wasn't even considering having him back tbh - family pressure I think

Good idea re: talking to someone about DV & supporting her, I'll look into that.

as its a domestic if she takes him back social work will have something to say about it, am actually surprised that they have been involved yet. something like this happened with my friend her partner attacked her infornt of her kids, social work were in and about the next day and said if she takes him back she risks losing her children as they pose him as a risk and hes not allowed anywhere near her or in the street that her house is on. so even if she wanted to take him back she couldnt. social work still visit every now and then to check that he isnt about

HavishamFish...

If she becomes a nanny you are obliged to become her employer. You will be responsible for her tax / NI, and to pay her holiday etc etc. You will also have to pay employers NI contributions and pay minimum wage etc (which may be fine while you have 3DC being cared for by her, but not so great as they grow up and she only has 1)

The poor lady . There is no way i could leave my children there if her violent ex (or current OH) was present. Simple as. I doubt ofstead will let him be there either.
However she would have my full support in telling him to bugger off out of her life.
To be a violent person is awful but to do it in front of children, one of which isnt even your own is far far far worse IMO, and you need to insure you dont allow it to happen again.
(not suggesting you "allowed" it this time , just that you must insure your DC are not around this man in future)

and GGGRRRRRRRR why would any family pressure her into living with a violent person? Id have thought it would be the other way round!!!!!!

Good Luck.

Thanks nannyl.

2dc are at school and one starting half days at nursery, so it'd be a case of her coming to our house in the morning in time to collect them & drop them at school, then picking them up (youngest at lunchtime & then an afternoon at ours/out & about before returning to school for the older ones).

I imagine we could work something out as the hourly rate for the three already exceeds minimum wage, & we pay her a retainer for the hols anyway. Is there a site for calculating nanny wages, tax & NI?

It's a Doomsday scenario anyway...I'm very much hoping that he can't keep up the Mr Nice Guy act until the courtcase; he can't move back in before then (bail conditions) & hopefully that gives her time to realise that she'd be making an awful mistake.

Her family aren't helpful - she & her h are cousins, there's a complex web of sisters married to brothers & so no-one's just on her side iyswim. It's all about conciliation & Keeping Up Appearances as far as I can see.

Makes me & she knows what I think - but it's her life & I don't want to overstep the mark in interfering .

Oh God.... what a truley awful situation for her (or anyone) to be in

I saw my mum in a relationship with my nasty vile violent step dad.... and it was hard... and then he attacked me

Unlike my Mum, i went to the police and got him charged etc etc , but still had to stand by and watch as my Mum had him back time and time again
Was very tricky as I decided that under no circumstances would my children ever meet that vile man, and I was prepared to take all the "family crap" as a result of my decision
Alls well that ends well though.... my mother FINALLY left him and they are now divorced He also tells everyone he can how "I ruined his life" (because he has violent thing on his CRB check,) which still makes me lol!

I really hope your CM has the strength to get him out of her life for good, although it certainly wont be easy

I see how you are well and truley stuck between a rock and a hard place, but perhaps making it quite clear that your DC are never ever going to be in a house that he lives in, might give her a little bit of support (if thats the right word?) / oomph / incentive to not have him back at all.

Personally i cant understand why anyone would encourage anyone to live with a violent person, whether they are family or not.

Good Luck to your friend / CM

Update:

CM had a meeting with Ofsted yesterday. They rang her today to say that they are temporarily suspending her. This means she can't have the kids on Monday.

I am utterly by this. We both thought that the worst case scenario would be that she'd be told she'd have to give it up if he moved back in - which cannot be until after the case comes to court (bail conditions).

In which case, she could've chosen to give us notice & not agree to his moving back in until the notice period was up/we'd made other arrangements.

It appears that, because she has said that they may reconcile, Ofsted don't trust her not to have him on the premises (I trust her implicitly on this, & anyway I'd know if he were about - our dc have played together at her house & mine over the summer, we have mutual friends, she has nosy neighbours etc etc).

I've rung Ofsted & spoken to a nice lady who says I can email our support which will be taken into account. But dh already attended the meeting with Ofsted - they wouldn't allow him to be in on the actual interview but he was able to talk to the inspector prior to it, so not sure how many MORE times we can tell them that we fully trust & support CM.

Am [anger]

But do you trust her when you think she will take him back?

Yes.

I've known her for 7 years: I've never known her to be anything but totally honest & upfront.

Atm, he's grovelling to come home & she's telling him that they will discuss it after the court case. She's told me she's not at all convinced she wants him back - it's all about the kids missing their dad/the extended family all putting pressure on - she's considering giving him a chance, but she's certainly not starry-eyed or particularly enthusiastic about it.

So yes, I'm confident that he's not even visiting the house. There's no need anyway - he's living at his parents', which is quite close by, & his access to his dc is at his brother/her sister's house, also nearby. So no reason for him to breach bail conditions.

Havisham - If she has said she may reconcile that means she intends to at least see him, therefore it's not over. Although she's not letting him in the house at the moment, as far as what Ofsted see she could any day now.

They don't know her personally, and actually that's better that way in this case. You have mutual friends, and believe she has nosy neighbours - but THEY can't monitor these situations that closely and have to have a rule that applies to all CMs. If a CM is in/potentially in a relationship with a violent person, then they can't CM, simple as that.

It is sad for her and for you, but if you look at it from their point of view instead of hers they have made the right decision.

Whilst you want and it is right to support your CM as your friend, you also employ her as a professional. Your poor dc has witnessed domestic violence, is no doubt very shaken and must be protected from that. Put it this way, what would be your reaction if this had happened in a nursery setting? Ofsted would close the nursery pending an investigation. No point being angry with Ofsted - they've done exactly what they should.

Are your dc worried about going back to the CM?

i think ofsted have it spot on, as a cm my first duty to my mindees is to keep them safe, your little one witnessed violence, you are a fabi friend to her but tbh if that was my child then she would have been out of there.

she must be considering taking him back...

They're pretty upset that they can't go there, actually!

I'm not arguing with Ofsted forbidding her to CM if her h is in the house, but the point is, he isn't. He was removed immediately following the violent incident & hasn't been on the premises since.

mrsHWM: If they'd been at a nursery, & one member of the staff had attacked another & then immediately been arrested, removed & banned from the premises, I'd not consider that the nursery should be closed down - if they then re-employed that person, THEN yes.

Apart from anything else - having been a victim of dv, she's now losing her livelihood which will make it harder for her not to allow her h to return. & she has been branded a liar & a risk to the children she loves & has provided exemplary care for, for the last 7 years.

We are quite prepared to make other arrangements for the kids if she chooses to allow her h to return, & that would be a consequence of her decision, but at the moment there is no question of him being on the premises or having any contact with our children. This has been the situation for the two months since the incident happened.

So still very I'm afraid...

I've passed on the numbers dittany yes - the trouble is she's now wishing she hadn't even called the police....

I just hope the fucker gets a custodial sentence. That'd sort the whole mess out.

It all so sad. You seem like such a lovely and loyal friend. I trust all goes well for your friend in the future . I send you a BIG HUG for your support in all of this.

hopefully the thought of losing her business will stop her taking him back. i know if i thought i would lose my job and have no income then i wouldnt be taking a violent partner back as my work means to much to me

That's the problem mrsttobe - they've taken that choice away from her by suspending her before she's in a position to make it.

She hasn't taken him back. She has been honest with them (& us) & said that it may be an option in two months time, after he's been to court (& assuming he's not in prison).

Because she's said this, they have decided that they don't trust her not to have him in the house in the meantime, despite her assurances & the fact that he'd be breaching his bail conditions.

So her choice now isn't CMing or her h - it's single parent benefits or her h.

If it was a case of them warning her that IF he was on the premises she would have her registration suspended, that would be entirely reasonable & as you say, she would have to choose.

I'm still waiting for Ofsted to actually inform me of the situation. They apparently thought it was OK to ring CM on Friday afternoon, drop this bombshell on her & leave her to inform me that I need alternative childcare for Monday because Ofsted apparently think she's a liar who'd put my children at risk...a totally unnecessary & distressing humiliation for her.

Can you go ahead with the nanny option?

its bloody awful for her, and can so see all of your points its just that one tiny 'may' take him back isnt it, that probably left ofsted with no choice but quite see that its depriving her of an income.

pehaps she needs to get an inspector round and categorically state that she would never have him in the house, ever, even in 2 months time, and then she needs to divorce the fucker..

unfortunatly thats easy to say isnt it, awful situation for her and for all concerned.

I completely agree thebody, that would be the best outcome all round as far as I'm concerned.

As it is, it's working out quite nicely for her h - he gets his wife back, he gets her financially dependent on him, he's rid of dh & me 'interfering' & 'putting ideas into her head' - & if he ever assaults her again, I very much doubt she'll feel inclined to report it .

RandomMess - the nanny option might be possible once the dust settles.

Atm, she is so terrified of Ofsted (think Harry Potter's first encounter with the Dementors) that she has convinced herself that if they so much as see her with my children, they will immediately sic SS on her & she'll lose her children.

Which probably didn't help in the interview. English isn't her first language & what with that & being paralysed with nerves, I can imagine she came across as inarticulate & easily intimidated (actually she's neither) - leading them to conclude that if her h did turn up, she'd be too scared to report it.

god yes see what you are saying, hope they put the bastard behind bars for a bit to give her some breathing space but that probably wont happen.

you are supporting her so much havisham but of course you can only do so much, its down to her in the end...

Could you get her a copy of the book "Why does he do that?" - it might not help in the short term, especially if she is feeling intimidated, and probably won't help with the ofsted situation, but it's written for people just coming out of an abusive relationship, people wavering should I/shouldn't I? and also people who want to stay with their abuser in the hope he will change. It's very comprehensive and very good at breaking down the barriers of "Oh but he loves me" "He's a great dad" "I'd be breaking up the family" "He's really sorry - he's trying to change" among many many other points.

Is it worth you ringing ofsted and asking them would they object to her nannying your children in your own home as you know her dh wouldn't dare come to your property.

Actually have you got room for him to become your live in with her dc?

I've actually got a copy of that book somewhere BertieBotts - good idea, I'll offer to lend it to her .

RandomMess - not got room to move them all in, no, although both sets of dc would probably love that idea .

Dh has name of Ofsted inspector he spoke to on Thursday, & is planning to ring & try to clarify things tomorrow. By the time all this dropped on us Friday, she'd left the office.

I'm back at school tomorrow (teacher) - kids don't go back till Tuesday, so dh has taken emergency leave tomorrow. No idea what we'll do on Tuesday. Not really what anyone needed to end the hols...