OK I have a dilemma!

[Saltire]

Have been ill since last Wednesday,a nd am off for the rest of this week. The parents of full time mindee have been round to give notice, as "it's too difficult for su to arange childcare when youre ill"'

They then went on to say "we haven't used our "free weeks hols and you have a week hols too, so we won't actually owe you anything" . Have had a look at contract (Morton Michaels)and although it says that I have to be given 4 weeks notice, it doesn't mention holidays etc

Also I give parents info sheets and policy sheets and I am pretty certain that on it I have put "parents have to give 4 weeks notice, this cannot be during holidays". So if a parents giving me notice, and are due to go on a week leave, then the notice period starts when they get back from hols

However, we moved house at the weekend and the desktop PC, where all my files are, isn't yet set up! Also parents are saying "well we didn't sign your policies or information sheet so the thing about givving notice and paying you doesn't apply, and we've started him in nurseery as of today and we're not paying you if you've not worked.

I have done 3 days in July so far,a nd was going to be having the child next week. Then I am on a weeks leave, and was back to work 1st August

Have just re-read what I typed earlier and it doesn't make sense.
I have been ill and off work this week. Parents all contacted me to say not to owrry jsut take week off. I was due to go back to childminding on 18th July.

Then I am on a weeks hols from 25th-29th July.
Parents of full time mindee came to see me today to say they cannot manage if I am off, that they have no leave left and are stuggling to get childcare for mindee. So they were giving me notice, 4 weeks from today.
BUT mindee isn't coming back, they have started him in the local nursery.

So parents then say "we haven't used any of our free hols, and we have 4 weeks left, so we only need to pay you for the 3 days you worked last week.

Contract says (its a Morton Michaels contract form)

This contrct may be ended by either of us giving 4 weeks notice to the toehr, except where I have told you in this contract that I may give/accept shorter notice than stipulated. If you give shorter notice than stipulated you will have to pay the fees to me that would be due for the remainder of teh notice period.

So, I am confused, do they need to pay me for the 4 weeks notice even though the have chosen to take child out early,a nd also can they assumethat the free holidays can be taken as a reason not to pay me

So let me get this straight - parents can take 4 weeks holiday for free, and they want to take these holiday weeks in lieu of notice.

However, your policy (which they have agreed to) says that holidays are not to be taken as part of a notice period?

In that case, they are in the wrong, but I'd call Morton Michel and check.

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Contract says (its a Morton Michaels contract form)

This contrct may be ended by either of us giving 4 weeks notice to the toehr, except where I have told you in this contract that I may give/accept shorter notice than stipulated. If you give shorter notice than stipulated you will have to pay the fees to me that would be due for the remainder of teh notice period.

They signed this (and appear to have lost their copy of contract)

My policy says that the notice period cannot be taken during a holiday period. They haven't signed this but have had copies.
TBH I've never had parents want to use their holidays in lieu of notice!?
I am availiable for working next week

It sounds like the contract that they signed would allow what they are proposing. It suppose it comes down to whether you are a) willing to take them to court and b) can persuade the court that the parents saw your policy sheet (and should have known to believe that in addition to the contract).

There are bits of the contract where I have written "as per my policies" on them and parents signed them.
Another thing DH just said is that because they cannot find their copy of the contract, they might say that I have altered my copy. Which I haven't but they might say that

How long have they been with you? If less than a year, they will not be entitled to 4 weeks holiday anyway. A week for every 13 weeks mindee has been with you.

I don't really understand the bit about taking notice period during a holiday period though!

My policy says that parents can have 3 weeks holidays without charge, and 2 weeks where they pay half rates.
They ahven't used any of their holidays. I have a weeks holiday next week, so taking it into account, plus their 3 weeks free (4 weeks in total) they want to use my weeks holiday and their 3 free weeks as their notice period, thus not having to pay me anything

If it says as per your policies, and they have signed that then I think that puts you in the right.

Just thought of something else. Although it says that notice cannot be taken/given during a holiday period, they aren't actually wanting holidyas as such, they just want to use the holidays (free) in lieu of giving me notice, not actually have holidays IYSWIM

They do want the holiday - they want the time without childcare and without paying for it. What they do with that time isnt important.

How far are you willing to pursue this? Are you willing to take them to court.

Don't know if I'd go to court, and actually they don't want free childcare, they chose to put the child in nursery before even giving me notice, and they now realise that they will have to pay an awful lot more than they pay me and are using the holiday clause as a get out of paying me

Has no one else ever had this situation?

Surely like an employment contract if you are allowing 4 wks a year hols where they don't have to pay, you would pro-rata that down for the period they've been with you and work it out that way?

Thats too complicated for me to even start to figure out. Maths was never my strong point

when did they start with you?

Sorry, I've never had this. I have had a family with 1 week holiday booked during a notice period, but because of our good relationship and the fact that we had both known about it in advance, we jointly accepted that. My contracts also say that notice period should not include holiday.

Not much help ... just didn't want to ignore you.

They have obviously decided that nursery is better, because they will know well in advance (usually) when it will be closed. If they couldn't cover your holiday, then it made sense for them to make the move to nursery before that happened. I think you will need to go by what they have signed to calculate any notice payment. It's also worth getting parents to sign a slip to confirm they have received your policies.

I think they're right. Sorry.

do you state how much notice must be given for the free holiday weeks as usually for most people that only applies when notice is given on time. possibly you week off you might just need to accept that its including in the notice period but how many weeks notice to you require for there holidays

They have known since beginning of April that I am taking that week off in July. However they have no leave elft to cover it. They said that because I'd been ill this weekend (was in hospital) that I am unreliable and also I have HBP (controlled) and therefore they cannot continue to use my services.
Fair enough.

They are required to give me at least 7 days notice of holidays (minimum, would prefer more) so although I am actually able to have their child next week, they have already started him in nursery, so if they take it as free leave, then I haven't had 7 days notice have I?

If I'm honest I feel a bit about teh whole thing.

They have lost their copies of the policies and their copy of the contract.

I thought - having not slept all night worrying about it - of saying that I would accept 2 weeks pay instead of 4? The way I see it is that I am availiable for work next week and turning up on Wednesday to say that the child won't be back (less that 7 days notice) is a breach of contract?

and another thing. Does the fact that they have given me a verbal notice of leaving and not anything written make a difference? The contract clearly states written notice and I did say to them yesterday that I needed it written down

God this is all confusing, I've never ever had parents want to take their "free" holiday entitlement as the notice period very other parent who has given me notice has either ha dme work the 4 week notice period or paid the 4 weeks!!!
The mum told DH when she met him out for a walk last night that they cannot afford to pay me, nursery, and live on their wages and tax credits, and that they had already used their childcare tax credits to pay for their holiday!

When did they actually start with you Saltire? I can pro rata the holidays thing for you if that helps x

They started on the 6th March (date of contract) They haven't used any of their holiday allowances.