AIBU to ask my new childminder to update CRB check?

[TheFowlAndThePussycat]

After all sorts of childcare stresses and temporary arrangements we have found a lovely childminder, in all other respects her paperwork is in order, she keeps beautiful records but her CRB (and her partner's) are four years old from when she started minding.

I work with children, young people & vulnerable adults in various different capacities and must have had half a dozen crb checks in the last four years! I asked if she would be prepared to update the CRBs at our expense and she is absolutely happy to. But she was clearly a bit taken aback and then I felt a bit guilty.

I should stress that I have no concerns at all, or I wouldn't be considering leaving the kids with her and I'm the first person to acknowledge that CRBs are not the be all and end all of keeping children safe. We have spent time with her with her mindees and our children and taken references and checked Ofsted etc. But it still seems like a sensible precaution to me - you'd kick yourself later if anything happened iyswim?

Are there any rules/guidelines for cms regarding CRBs? And how do CMs access them (at work we pay a third party to do them)

Thanks in advance.

CM don't need to update their CRB's. To be honest 4 years is relatively recent! I presume you've had lots as you've changed jobs or areas?
i'd be mildly insulted to be asked to update ! if there had been any issues at all in the past 4 years, believe me, OFSTED would have taken her registration away.

I would be taken aback too. She's not a nanny and I would feel asking this would be a bit inappropriate. She has a duty to inform Ofsted of any changes (arrests, investigations etc) of all grown up members of the family that would influence her ability to childmind from her home. If she is on the register that means that nothing has changed since.

I asked Ofsted if I could renew mine, because it's 10 yrs old and they said 'no'! I do have a more recent one for chaperoning and another one for Guides, but my CM one is far too old in my opinion.

The new system which had been planned and would have meant us having one check for everything that was continuously updated was a really good idea I think, but that was scrapped.

Well, I take your point and I really hope I haven't upset her and yes, you are right most of my CRBs have been for different activities. However the policy in both of the main jobs I have had is that 'frontline' workers update CRBs annually and people with infrequent contact with children update every 2 years. Since they don't update automatically updating is the norm.

Out of interest how would ofsted know there was a problem?

Sorry HSMM x-post, yes it would have been nice if the promised system had appeared!

I wouldn't be taken aback at all. My checks are 4 yes old and I can't believe no one has questioned it.

How is that going to happen?

OFSTED won't recheck (I know I have tried multiple times) & as far as I know you can't just ask for one (BTW if you can just request one can you tell me where from as I really need access to a system which does this)

Ofsted won't update it but you could ask the local children's centre if they would be prepared to do one for them if you pay, but they may not. The only other way would be through a school or an agency but the crb would not be for childminding.

I asked Ofsted about updating CRB checks and latest developments on the ISA scheme earlier this year.

Their response (May 2011) was:

In response to your enquiry, the ISA Vetting and Barring Scheme was a scheme due to be introduced this year.  However, following the change of government last year, this scheme was halted.  We do not have any further information about if or when this scheme will now be introduced.

 Parents can currently enter a provider's registration number on the Ofsted website and it will bring up that provider's details.  Everybody registered with Ofsted has undergone an enhanced CRB check and we would not register somebody who has been deemed unsuitable.

I would suggest that you write to ofsted - [email protected] - and ask them about it, from the parents point of view. As childcare providers we have tried and are hitting a brick wall. If parents start kicking up a fuss, perhaps Ofsted will see what they can do about it, if anything.

Keep in mind that the ISA scheme was going to take over this function but the new Government scrapped it. So Ofsted actually told me: "For further guidance on the Vetting and Barring Scheme or recommendations for CRB developments, please contact your local Government MP." Which I interpreted as being winge to your MP not to us, we are civil servants and just do as the Government of the day tells us. So also write to your MP and see if they can tell you why Ofsted are not updating the CRB checks on registered childcare providers.

Belive it or not I dont have one for childminding!
before I bacame a childminder I workes as an LSA in our local school so had an enhanced CRB for that (this is approx 5yrs old now)
I have been childminding 3yrs now and have had occasion to ring Ofsted 3 times in the last 3 years, each time Ive questioned why I didnt get a CRB for my childminding, their answer was that Ofsted would not have Registered me If they thought I wasnt a suitable person!

how bizzarre.... an ofsted nanny will have theirs updated every 3 years by ofsted.

I wonder why there is a difference

Thanks everyone for the comments, I have just spoken to Ofsted, they said that as a government department they would be updated by the police and social services etc if there was any reason for concern with a registered childminder. That seemed fair enough, but given that Paula says that ofsted update nannies every three years I am now really confused!

I guess it's up to the individual parent to decide how much they trust the government to share information accurately and promptly & then decide whether to do a CRB privately. I still don't have any info about how I would do it privately though. As it does seem that I'm asking something unusual perhaps I should drop it. I'll have a think.

Thanks again for the advice.

It's really difficult to do it privately (Music teachers struggle with this constantly)

I am an Ofsted registered nanny and Ofsted does not re-do my CRB this year. Ofsted did one for me 3 years ago when they took over the registration from SureStart and I called them asking whether they will do a new one this year. I got the same answer as childminders that they won't do it if there is no concern about me. My boss called them too and got the same answer.

I am getting a new crb through workzone (www.work-zone.org.uk) because I need to provide a current one for babysitting agencies.

My check was done 17 yrs ago when we were regulated by Social Services.
I've had nothing since then!

an ofsted nanny will have theirs updated every 3 years by ofsted.

Paula - I'm an Ofsted Registered Nanny. Ofsted won't update my CRB check.

We pay our annual fee and we don't get a new check done. Ofsted just are not interested in doing them.

Possibly some useful stats:
<a class="break-all" href="http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20110218223524/www.crb.homeoffice.gov.uk/pdf/foi%2014125.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Number of disclosures which brought up a criminal conviction.
<a class="break-all" href="http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20110218223524/www.crb.homeoffice.gov.uk/docs/FOI14125xl.xls" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">XLS spreadsheet of conviction types (2.5Mb)

Parents are unable to request a CRB check gets done on an individual. There are some possible ways around that, which involve finding a Registered Body/Umbrella Body who will do the check and pretend to be making a decision based on the outcome of that check. For example, a nanny agency may be able to do the check based on the person being checked signing up to be on the agencies books. WorkZone looks interesting... the outcome of a satisfactory CRB check is membership of the site.

Problem I see with that sort of thing is if the CRB check comes back with anything on the back of it... how do they determine if that information makes someone unsuitable for their job role?

I've seen many CRB checks over the years... often those checks would have things on the back, such as charges of theft or cautions related to shop lifting. Would such things stop someone working with children?

When I did my childminding training I was told it was good practice to get your CRB updated every 3 years and that if we get in touch with our local childminding team they would advise how to get it done.

It was stressed that we didn't have to and that it wasn't expected by ofsted but that some parents would prefer it.

It does highlight how much trust a parent has to put in a carer just on face value. A CRB check can only mean you havent been CAUGHT doing anything wrong so in a way not an indication to anything. If your CM had abused a child etc etc then other processes would have taken place to safeguard the children around her and you would know about it and she would not be working as a CM!
What you were asking is totally understandable but I would've been offended as a CM although I know I shouldnt be - you're just looking out for your child.

I also work with vulnerable children and have had several checks and to be honest I think they really don't prove anything as people who want to abuse will always slip through the net. My foster sons father has three separate allegations of sex abuse against children but as he has never been convicted due to lack of evidence, victims retracting claims. His police check would come back clear. Would I want him near my children- absolutely not.

I suppose it is just the contrast with working in the voluntary sector where it is just completely accepted and the norm to have checks, seriously no one would be offended, they are more likely to sigh at the thought of filling inyet another one! Yet cm and nannies who work unsupervised with children day in day out don't have to have updated ones.

I totally agree that they don't prove much, although to my understanding scarlettsmummy the man you talk about would not necessarily get a clear check as it is at the discretion of the police to provide information of complaints separately. However where I work they are the baseline of child protection, a starting point iyswim and then other layers of safeguarding are built on top. It's a different mindset I suppose.

My ofsted crb is 3 years old for nannying. I phoned ofsted a few weeks ago and asked whether I needed to up date it. They said no, because they would have soon let me know if anything had changed because the police etc keep them informed. I have another one through my childrens centre volunteerig which is very recent, so I always show both.

I live in scotland so am thinking of the DIsclosure Scotland checks- they only show up convictions. I presumed that CRB would be the same.

Enhanced CRB shows more than just convictions. It shows cautions for instance.

The problem with information sent by separate cover, is that the parent never gets to see that. That info is only given to the registered body. Where as the CRB check parents get to see is the Applicant Copy.

I don't think most childcarers object to these checks, most of us probably would like ours updated. Cost is an issue - childminders have theirs paid for by Government... but Government is cost cutting, so who is going to pay? If the childminder pays, then that cost gets passed on to parents via increased childcare cost. Do parents want increased childcare costs?

Why does voluntary sector redo them every 3 years - what legislation is there that makes that a requirement? Or is it just some parts of the voluntary sector are choosing to spend what little money they have on such bits of paper, rather than on providing their service?

It is the standard recommended by government. It is what ofsted recommend for nurseries. It is a requirement of many funders.

I don't for a minute suppose every childcare provider would be offended by being asked for a crb, I was responding to those posting here who said they would.

Fwiw I have decided not to pursue it, I am very happy with the childminder we have & it seems that a system is in place, so I won't rock the boat.