St Georges Tooting vs Kingston

[designerbaby]

HI ladies,

Just realised that our new home is situated almost equidistantly from both Kingston & St Georges Hospital - we'll be moving in when I am almost 8 months pregnant (eek etc.)

I'm trying to decide which one to plump for and wondered if anyone on here had any experience of either which they'd like to share...

My preference would be a MW unit with pool - but given that my last labour was induction carnage with forceps in the operating theatre, (and there's a good chance that this baby will be even bigger that my 9lb 8oz DD) I'm aware this may not be the case for me...

That said, I'm hoping for a hospital which is less keen on interventions, and hopefully will not whisk me off for a C-section at the least excuse! I want to at least be given the opportunity to do this myself, IYSWIM, so sympathetic consultants would be a big plus.

Also post-natal care last time was horrific, so that's a factor I'll be trying to take into consideration too...

Thanks ladies, in anticipation...

db
xx

I had my first at St George's. Couldn't fault it really. Midwife-led, natural delivery - they were very supportive of my wanting to do it with just gas and air (which I did)

Good luck!!

PS Good luck with the move too....am wondering where you'll be [nosy emoticon]!!

I think St George's for MW-led. Kingston has very good "hotel" facilities (not meaning to sound horrible, good care too, I had 2 there).

I found St Georges very dirty. I swapped hospital at 41 weeks because when I went along for my overdue assessment they examined me in front of a room full of patients and their partners and left me with my tummy out with the monitor on in the same room. There was no privacy at all. When I went to the toilets there was blood ont he floor on which I nearly skidded and the bins with overflowing with tiisues spilling out onto the floor. I was really disgusted .

I had DD1 at St George's and spent a week on the hellhole they laughingly called a maternity ward afterwards.
DD1's birth was progressing slowly but fine (back to back labour) and the midwife had no concerns, when a consultant on his ward rounds charged in with a bunch of junior doctors, ordered me up on the bed so he could examine me and ordered me catheterised and a drip put in to speed up labour. I was then effectively stranded on my back in the bed, when I had been labouring upright holding on to the end of the bed and of course my labour slowed right down, despite the drip. DD1 swallowed meconium and was put on a week's course of ABs.
She was also slightly jaundiced, but we were given the bed furthest away from the window and when a window bed became available not allowed to change into it. Nor was I allowed to carry her out of the ward to get sunlight at one of the corridor windows. Furthermore though they did try in their way to support breastfeeding they also INSISTED on giving her formula from a cup to supplement my milk.
The bathrooms were revolting - in my antenatal classes we had been warned to bring our own cleaning equipment (and also pillows) with us, and they really were necessary.
My next two babies were delivered at home by their fabulous community midwife team.
This was 12 years ago though, so may very well not be relevant to current practice - the midwife-led unit was not then available as an option. But certainly I would NEVER wish to give birth at St Georges again.

Thanks all - wow, that's a pretty overwhelming consensus so far (surprising!). Will wait and see if any different opinions come to light otherwise looks alike quite an easy decision for me...!!

MakemineaGandT - we'll be on Cannon Hill Lane, just past Springfield Avenue.. that do you?!! Always happy to satisfy a fellow nosey parker! Well, we will be if the bulders have managed to get the bathroom and kitchen in by then... oh, and some windows might be good... and maybe a floor? (fussy fussy fussy...)

db
xx

Ah, now I KNEW it wouldn't be that one-sided - sorry LadyGlen and Pardon - x posts...
x

Anyone have any experience of Kingston?
Or are they all too traumatised to talk about it??!!

db
xx

I had dd at Kingston in July; doctors and mws were very good. I was home birth transfer so went straight to a room with a doctor, but I've heard the mw unit is good too with pools etc. A colleague spent a week there and was impressed with breastfeeding support etc. Another colleague just had third child there even though lives outside the area for it now. Good luck!

i had my DD at st george's - excellent care and experience. best friend had hers at kingston also great - she especially praised fab breastfeeding support. have heard that carmen suite (new midwife-led area) in george's is really nice (with pools etc) - the fact it's new must be a plus... both fine basically! good luck

Had 3 at Kingston. 2 with trainee midwives - great (let me get on with it and blended into the background until required iykwim). 1 qualified agency midwife who did my head in.
First time got stranded there for 4 days - was awful despite having own room etc. (food and "care" just sooo bad).
Second told them straight after wanted to leave as soon as - waited all day on ward for discharge papers.
Third said I wasn't leaving delivery room until I had the discharge papers but still had to wait 6 hours (no bedding, no food) for the shift to change.

Another positive experience for StG's here. The Carmen Suite is very shiny and new, and the midwives I met there were just lovely, even though I transferred (with aforementioned lovely midwife) down to the delivery suite.

The postnatal wards are not great, although I think the filth people mentioned is a thing of the past, as they were spotless when I was there for two nights. Only thing that happened was that one of the mums made a mistake with the shower and flooded one of the bathrooms, but I'm guessing that kind of thing happens anywhere.

IIRC you aren't allowed to do tours of Kingston's facilities, whereas you can with St G's. Go on the tour asap, and see what you think.

You don't have the option of paying for a private room post delivery at St G's. Don't know if that's an option at Kingston. The four bed wards at St G's are a bit rough - the babies were quiet, but not the mums...

A bit of a ramble, but hope something helpful in there for you .

Thanks so much for sharing all your experiences... Its a shame that one can't tour (I think you can't in St Georegs even because of SF worries...). It hard - Kingston seems to be winning at the moment - stats (per baby) from this and a similar thread under another topic - look a bit like this... (anally retentive emoticon)

St Geroges Good 111111111111
St Georges Bad 111111

Kingston Good 11111111111111111
Kingston Bad 1111

Which seems to suggst Kingston ahead by a nose - which combined with the fact that i think the drive will be easier (less traffic) and parking more readily available is making me lean towards Kingston at the moment...

That said this is hardly a scientific study - just tried to glean the gist of each thread toward positive or negative... But maybe it helps.

It did feel that those, in the main, who had bad experiences at St G's found it catastrophicaly bad, whereas bad experinces at Kingston seemed, bar one, to be less dramatically bad...

It would be naive to expect any kind of categorical evidence, really. Mixed bag and luck of the draw wherever you go, really...

Thanks for everyone's help though - it really helps to build a bit of a picture of each.

db
xx

Will be intersting to see if anything else crops up.

I had my first at St George's and had a bad experience - my midwife was awful and made lots of mistakes (admittedly she was newly qualified, but even other staff were raising their eyebrows at each other by the end); no loo attached to the delivery room so I had to keep detaching all my various drips (none of which were planned...) and try to walk down the busy corridor mid-contraction with my sheet half wrapped around me and my bum sticking out every time I needed the loo; very dirty loos; I wasn't allowed to eat and was shaking because I was so tired by the end; absolutely horrible ward, but just because it was noisy and crowded - they let in waaaay too many visitors, and out of hours, so it was impossible to rest (I asked for a private room but was told they were full, even though they weren't).

I just had my DS at Kingston and I can't tell you how different the experience was. I wanted the midwife-led unit but unfortunately it was closed. However, it was still fantastic - great staff; clean room with attached loo and bath (I relaxed in it at the beginning and took a shower afterwards); much calmer, less frantic and somehow more human in scale (if that makes sense); private room with own bathroom; great aftercare.

I loved Kingston and would definitely go there again. GL!

That's a great help, BlueMango... It's rare to find people who have had experience of both, so it really helps to hear that direct comparison.

I think I'm almost definitely set on Kingston... well, nearly...

Let's just see if they'll have me!?

db
xx

bluemango - out of interest when did you have your first at St G's? I was expecting filth and squalor based on reports I had heard, and it was all clean. The loo thing was still the case, although they have been doing some more building work so that may be changing. In any event, the Midwife Led Unit is all fully ensuite rooms.

The wards also have strict rules on visitors out of hours - everybody was kicked out at the specified time except the dad with a poorly baby. The only thing was that they let one girl have far more visitors than they said they allowed - not sure why, but they were not noisy.

Having said all that, DB, I would personally go to my closest hospital, as if you're anything like me once you're ready to go there, you'll want the journey to be as quick as possible.

Hi Santa - distance-wise not much in it - traffic can make all the difference though - St Georges is along a road I know gets completely clogged with traffic even at off-peak times, whereas the route to Kingston is generally pretty clear.

I know what a difference this can make as last time a good journey to the hospital was 25 minutes but once, in rush-hour it took 2 hours and commonly took well over an hour in ordinary traffic.

And as this one is going to be a non-induced labour, a couple of days before my due date and the baby is going to come within four hours in a pool with only a bit of gas and air to help me cope with my very mild contractions, I figure travel time will, in fact, be crucial?

Interestingly an old work colleague popped in earlier today - we lost touch when we both went on mat. leave a couple of years back and I loved on the opposite side of London from her. Anyway, turns out she's actually very close to my new house and had bothe hers at Kingston, as did many of her friends (one just 6 months ago). Nothing but glowing reports from all apparently. Spotlessly clean, lovely supportive midwives, great BF support, private rooms a-plenty etc. etc.

Which has made me feel a whole lot more decided, I have to say...

db
xx

That's lived on the opposite side of London. Although, as DD2 is now on the way, a fair bit of lovin' clearly went on too... but that wasn;t my point... ANYway...

Hey DB, only just noticed your thread but have started ante-natal care at Georges twice, but moved halfway to give birth elsewhere - first time St Thomas' and second time at Kingston.

I would recommend Kingston wholeheartedly. I was initially a bit at being told to go and watch the TV in the reception instead of getting a tour of the facilities, and also nervous about how busy they seemed, but they were honestly wonderful on the day.

I had part private care due to some complications and a planned C/S, but I actually really missed the NHS side when I got moved to the private wing. The midwives were so busy but still treated me like a human being, and a couple were quite touchy-feely (in a nice way (!) An arm around your shoulder here and a pat of the hand there, a WORLD away from St Thomas'), and they made my experience very special indeed after the out and out trauma that was my first birth.

Good choice and good luck!

Kingston every time! I supported two ladies through births at Kingston just recently. Lovely care.

Ooh did you meet Naz? She was my fave MW

I had my baby at St George's last Thursday, and I was pleasantly surprised with the experience, given the experiences I'd read in recent years on MN. They have had terrible grades for their maternity care, and have supposedly pulled their socks up a lot in the last year.

STAFF: they gave me a great no-nonsense independent midwife who guided me through a quick labour. Another midwife who joined her for a bit, and the doctor who stitched me after a small cut, were both delightful too. In the post partum ward, Gwillim, I was assigned a lovely person as my key midwife, but a couple of others I encountered in the 12 hrs I was there upset me a little. I was given pretty good initial breastfeeding support from three people, despite the ward being at full capacity. In other departments there the staff were a mixed bag. The three sonographers I had were great. Most of the ante natal midwives were fine, but on the whole a bit ill-informed about procedures at their own hospital, although that's not uncommon in large public sector organisation.

HYGIENE: Spotless. Huge difference between the public areas (loos in ante natal a bit yucky for example) and the delivery and Gwillim wards, which gleamed. Bathrooms and toilets put my own and DP's cleaning to shame. They've really turned this area around, given the stories I've read of blood dripping from walls etc. Although there will always be times when you go into a loo after a dirty bugger has done their business, and the cleaners can't be everywhere at once.

CAPACITY: This might be an issue depending on the birth you want. I had been dead set on the Carmen Suite since before I was even pregnant. However, when I called the Carmen to report on the status of my labour on Thursday, I was told it was full and to go to Delivery instead. This could seriously disappoint someone who was dead set on a water birth or whatever. It didn't bother me too much though - I announced to my midwife on arrival that she should tear up my natural-focus birth plan and bring on the drugs (G&A and pethidine). I was lucky to even be there - I got the last bed at St George's delivery, where I stayed all night as there was no bed on the post-delivery ward. This actually was brilliant, as it meant DP could stay with me all night following a midnight birth. I'm just relieved I was there at all, as I'd have been devastated to have arrived in the agony I was in and been sent off to Mayday or wherever. I've read that their getting full and turning people away happens quite a bit.

That turned into a bit of an epic, but just ask if you want to know anything else.

Santa, I was at St George's nearly 3 years ago, so I'm sure a lot has changed, especially with what I've heard about the mw-led unit.

Even so, I preferred the scale of Kingston. It was smaller, less rushed and people seemed to know each other and stop for chats, all of which made it somehow more friendly.

I know a lot of it comes down to luck in terms of who you have caring for you on the day and how easy (or not) the birth is, but the care I had at St George's was so poor and made me so upset for so long that I begged not to go there this time. Like I said, though, so much of it comes down to luck, how busy they are, who is on, how near the end of shift etc etc.

Thanks bluemango. If (and that's a big if) we ever get around to having number 2, sounds like Kingston is definitely worth a look.

DB - snigger at your birth plan and loving all over London. Hope you have a lovely birth experience when it happens.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/pregnancy/864091-DId-you-give-birth-in-Kingston-hospital-in-th-elast

Above is a link to a recent posting about this same topic (if this link works - not sure how to do it!).

Like you, i live equal distance to both St Georges and Kingston. Based on the info I had, I chose to give birth at Kingston last year, and was very happy with this decision - the birth experience in the MW-led unit was fantastic, first class. However the postnatal care was rubbish - but this is the case in most hospitals due to understaffing. St Georges has certainly improved, but it's reputation for maternity care is/was bad - however I know that recently it has got a lot better.