Can anyone answer a silly question please? midwives etc.

[Rooneyisalwaysmoaning]

if you have a moment.

I had ds3 6 weeks ago in hospital, having had a homebirth previously. I arrived after an hour or so of 'proper' ie painful labour, and was put in a room, the MW was there, filling in forms mostly. She kept saying the baby will be here soon when I asked for an epidural, but I kept asking and she kept fobbing me off. Finally after maybe half an hour she came and did an internal, and said I was about 6cm dilated - and I was still asking and she was saying he didn't think there would be much time as the baby's head was right there.

Then she said she had just given me a 'really big sweep'. I don't know why she did this. I wanted things to slow down, not speed up and if I was already making good progress what was the point?

The idea that she did this without my consent, is bothering me probably more than it should - I did ask the MW I saw after he was born, what the purpose would be of this but she seemd clueless so I never got an answer.

If anyone can explain it to me I'd be really grateful. I just hate the idea of it iykwim.

Technically, this is an 'offence against the person' - it is a criminal act and it does not matter that it was in hospital.

I am not saying that the DPS would ever prosecute but equally it is appalling that the midwife did not understand her legal obligation to obtain consent.

It all smacks of the wider mid Staffs problem - lack of training in ethics and a cultural attitude that has been allowed to develop within the NHS that blinds staff to suffering and infringements to dignity and human rights.

NICE guidelines ignored (you should have got your epidural) and a criminal act committed - grounds for a formal complaint I would say!!!!!!!

I am so sorry about what happened to you but hope you take it further Rooney - everyone who complains helps to stop other women being treated like this.

Some of the treatment women are getting is truly appalling and just plain cruel. Look at the other threads - terrified tokophobic women being denied caesareans and verging on mental breakdown, women being refused pain relief, women being denied repeat caesareans after previous c/s when NICE says they should have a choice. It is shocking.

I do hope the MN team intervene at some point and start campaigning on this. Mid staffs is the tip of the iceberg. Good luck whatever you decide.

Thanks Ushy. Tbh I was mainly just confused and a bit that it had happened - and no, I didn't want her to do it, but I wasn't asked.

She seemed like a nice person and I don't think there was any element of animosity or aggression in her actions, just possibly she was a bit early in her career and didn't understand that she ought to ask - well, I never knew that myself.

I'm interested to know if anyone can explain the thinking behind what she did though. I don't know much about it all but from what I have read, sweeps are only done to stimulate labour, and I was already an hour or so away from delivery at this point and in a LOT of pain.

I did get an epidural but was fobbed off for so long that it arrived about 30 minutes before he was born - so it took the edge off but hadn't really kicked in properly.

I expect it was to try and hurry things up even more? Had your waters already broken?

I think you should take it further.

The fact that she fobbed you off for the pain relief you asked is bad enough, but the sweep without your consent is assault and at the very least you should make a formal complaint to the hospital about her.

at the very least.

to answer your question, I can't think of any reason why she would ahve given you a sweep if you're already 6cm dilated.
it makes no sense at all.

"just possibly she was a bit early in her career and didn't understand that she ought to ask - "

she would know.

Hi, I'm can't answer your question, but I've been feeling similarly about an examation which was done without asking/explanation despite my birth plan saying no examinations and explain everything to me. Not sure what to do about it really.

I was also given an internal examination without being asked or told, I think some hcps forget that we are still people during labour

I don't have any advice, but during labour I had my waters broken without being told that's what the doctor was doing or even being asked if I wanted it. I really would rather they hadn't broken them, there was no need. I've never known if I should have said something to someone, and if so, then to who. It was nearly 2.5 years ago now though.

Nurses and midwives have to be registered with the NMC to practice in the UK and practice within guidelines known as the code ( see link)

www.nmc-uk.org/Documents/Consultations/NMC%20Consultation%20-%20code%20of%20conduct%20-%20%20Phase%202%20draft%20code.pdf

Gaining informed consent for any care or treatment given is listed on p.2 of the code and is taught throughout any training.

Hope the link helps.

could you arrange to go to the hospital for a debrief to discuss the birth to start with?

Speak to the supervisors of midwives and ask for answers if you do not get answers you are happy with then complain formally.

I think it sounds a horrible experience a sweep at 6cms dilated! No need at all and even if there was a need consent should always be asked. I'm in now and they are constantly asking my permission for everything even just to feel my bump let a lone an internal exam or sweep! It is a physical assault she should have given you the option to refuse it explain her motives so you could consent.