Has anybody read "How weaning happens"?

[mawbroon]

Is it any good?

I just don't know what to do for the best with ds. He is 2.5 and still feeding 3,4,5 or more times a day. He's not in any hurry to give up and tbh, neither am I but I am having no joy ttc dc no2. I have been charting for 9 months now and find that breastfeeding has shortened my luteal phase to around 9 days which is not long enough for implantation. I am assuming that this will revert back to the way it was pre ds once I stop feeding as much, or stop completely.

I really would like to let him self wean, but it could be another 2 years for all we know. I am wondering if this book might give me some ideas or perhaps describe if there is a gentle way of encouraging him to self wean. Hmm, would it still be self weaning if I encouraged him? Hmm, not sure.

Any advice?

I have no idea but will watch your thread with interest. DS2 is still feeding lots during the night and I'm pretty fed up so am thinknig of weaning him ...I never thought i woudl get to this point

Yep its a very good book with lots of ideas & info about mother led & child led weaning. Defo worth a read.

Strictly anything you do to encourage him not to feed means it's not techinically child-led weaning....but I think it is a very fine line when you get to this stage because even tiny things can help ecourage a child not to feed so much and it's not necessarily traumatic for the child...they can at least have it explained to them why Mummy can't/doesn't want to feed them right now...

Might be worth talking things through with a BFC for some ideas as well. Do you have an LLL group nearby? (see here to check: www.laleche.org.uk/pages/groups/county_list.htm) most will have a good number of mums feeding older children so you might get some tips there as well. You should be able to borrow a copy of How Weaning Happens at most groups as well.

Sorry to hear you are getting fed up with it KristinaM. Part of my problem is that I am not fed up with it. I love it. But I feel I have to strike a balance if he is to have any siblings as I'm not getting any younger!

terramum - yes, I go to monthly LLL meetings for older babies and toddlers and I brought it up last time. There were a couple of suggestions but I didn't think that any of them were workable for us. The leader didn't say much, she just said "sounds like you have a lot of things to balance here" or something like that.

I know that doing stuff to encourage him then means it's not child led, but like you say, if there was anything I could do to help him along without upsetting him then I might be willing to go down that route instead.

would recommend the book too, lots of ideas in it.

I would defo read how weaning happens...here are the chapter headings to give you an idea of what's in it:
Thinking about Weaning
What Natural Weaning Is Like
Stories of Natural Weaning
Breastfeeding and Weaning as Your Baby Grows
Gently Encouraging Weaning
Some Perspectives on Natural Weaning
Pressure to Wean
Weaning Because of Medical Advice
Mothers' Feelings about Weaning
When Weaning Isn't Going Well
Physical and Emotional Changes In Mothers after Weaning
The New Mother-Child Relationship

that's great terramum, thank you. I will have a look on Amazon.

I love the bf in general. But he is feeding at least 5-6 times a night and more often during the day and i'm a bit weary after such a long time without a decent nights sleep . i would like to be able to wean him at night and go on feeding him in the day

evrything i have read suggests that I should be able to tell him that he cant feed at a certain time and he will accept it. but when i do this he has a SCREAMING tantrum & becomes hysterical. there is no way he will settle for a cuddle or a drink of water if he wants a bf.

if my Dh gets up for him in the night he won't even look at him, just screams for mummy and milk

he is my last so i don't have to worry about TTC. But i conceived him while Bf his 8mo brother, after my first AF, so i was very lucky (although very surprised)

My daughter is 3.5 and still breastfeeding .

However, she doesn't feed at night. If she wakes during the night (which is very occasional) I tell her that she must go back to sleep, not feed, and she is fine with that.

However, I wish she'd self-wean completely . I need to discourage her more.

That does sound very tiring KristinaM. My ds is also not very good at accepting that he can't have milk. He can be distracted to a point, but after being fobbed off a couple of times with books etc, he becomes pretty much as you describe. However, I am lucky that he isn't waking much at night just now and only gets fed at night if he is ill.

Today, I thought I would see how we got on with "never offer, never refuse". I just don't think that will work for us. He woke at 5.20 and we went to bed together and he fed until 7.20 when we both got up. Then he wanted more milk 30 mins later. Then he had another 2 feeds before lunchtime. He had one in the afternoon and one at bedtime. I suppose I can't say after one day that it doesn't work for us, but I feel that trying to get out of the house in the morning would be impossible if I were to feed him every time he asked.

He is the type of child who doesn't do something for ages and then, bang, all of a sudden he's doing it. So if he applies the same thing to weaning, I am guessing that one day he will just stop. And then I will be on MN crying because he's just stopped without warning.

DS2 is also an avid feeder. He is now 21m, and although he doesn't feed at night (7pm until 5.30am ish), he feeds 10 or more times during the day.

I conceived DS2 whilst still bfing DS1, but we were down to two or three feeds per day by then, so it was a completely different situation.

We're not having any more, but I'd still like to tail this off sometime soon. I just want a bit more independence from him, and for him to be less dependent upon me.

Have seen a few copies of that book on Amazon, so think I'll get a copy too. Will report back

I have and it is lovely
I have lent it to another MNer but perhaps could lend to you when she has finished with it?

the likelihood is that your ds will self wean in the next year or so

That's very kind of you Franny. I am going tomorrow to see if it's in the LLL library, and if not, they have them used on Amazon for about £3 so it won't break the bank.

I am sure that you are right that he will self wean in the next year or so, but I am starting to get twitchy about ttc. If I were 10 years younger then I wouldn't worry at all, but I'm not...

I did read a book called something like "Breastfeeding and natural childspacing" but it basically said that if I accept that it's God's will that I cannot conceive just now, then that will make it all better.

from what i have read here on mumsnet, conceiving while you are Bf seems totally random IYSWIM. Some women seem to get Af back really quickly but they have trouble TTC, other have no AF for months or even a year. a surprising large number conceive by mistake before they even have one AF . there doesnt seem to be any pattern

sorry i dont think thats much help

I did manage to cut ds down to 4 feeds a day at one point and I managed to conceive. However, I miscarried at around 5.5 weeks. I am guessing (but will never know for sure) that it managed to implant, but the short luteal phase meant that the lining wasn't built up enough to sustain it.

This is making me think that I will probably have to have weaned ds completely, or almost completely before I can sustain another pg.

I read it when pg with my second child. My DS1 was still quite young (under two) but it helped us wean gently over a period of about three-four months without real stress on either side. And no boob problems either!

Oh yes, thanks for reminding me motherhurdicure. I was going to look for Adventures in the LLL library too!

So, you cut down to ttc and during early pregnancy and then upped feeding again? Is that right? I had been thinking of that as an option as well as I think I would be prepared to tandem feed if the opportunity arose.

KristinaM, I read your posts with great interest. My ds is just like yours. Will not be put off his night feeds.

He is 1.5 years' old, so probably younger than yours. He is a sturdy boy who eats well during the day. He does not need to feed at night. He just wants the comfort and (this it the bit I really dislike) wants to sleep latched on. If I refuse and offer cuddles instead, or give him a quick feed and try to unlatch, lately, he has been going absolutely hysterical. He screams blue murder at the sight of dh as well, so dh cannot really help.

I tried limiting nursing to from 5 am. Sometimes, he wakes like clockwork at 5 am. But recently, has been wanting to feed almost every hour.

I am thinking of night weaning cold turkey. I can't see how his strong personality would 'accept' any other way.

Dd was like this too, and when I weaned her during a nursing strike at 17 months, she suddenly started sleeping through. I am disappointed to not be able to phase it out.

Maybe I should get that self-weaning book. But not holding out great hopes because wishy-washy methods like No-Cry-Sleep-Solution just don't wash with my dcs.

I heard a LLL leader give good advice to a friend of mine once, when she was thinking about weaning to conceive another child

she said you need to think carefully about how you would feel having weaned your existing child in order to conceive a possible child, and then found you were still unable to conceive

this doesn't give an answer of course, just one more thing to think about but it did make an impression on me

mawbroon - i can understand your dilemma, especially if you feel under a time pressure. i woudl guess that you coud drop down to one or two feeds a day then pick up again later. Would ds accept that? I found that Bf during my first trimester made me very nauseous, so you may go off the idea once you are pg

blueshoes - your Ds sounds exactly like mine. i honestly dont knwo what to do. i counted the night feeds last night ( so i could moan here)and i was up 6 times. And that wasn't even a bad night. i am pretty fed up with it now

Lots of articles on kellymom mention how the child lost interest around their second birthday. He hasn't read these though as he is 2 years 4 months and shows no signs of decreasing

he has been accepting a cup of water during the night but before rather than instead of a BF (he doesn't drink cows milk but will take it happily in cereal ect)

How do you wean cold turkey? Surely you woudl get engorged etc? I am clutching at straws here

DS1 only stopped when i was 6 mo pg . i was glad TBH as it had become very very painful. This is a bit of a drastic solution though

kristinaM, if cold turkey is where you want to go (I am still wavering), then I can't imagine a gentle way of doing it. I can see ds wakes, screams his head off because he does not get the boob (I am next to him, we co-sleep), tears at my clothes, until the 'tantrum' passes, probably finally settle for a cuddle, then wake up again soon after and the cycle repeats. Ditto the next day and the next etc.

Unless your ds feeds a lot during the day, I can't imagine engorgement being a serious issue. When I weaned dd cold turkey, I did get engorged for a few days. I used hand expressing to relieve the pressure. Cold cabbage leaves, help, I believe. It was fine within a week.

6X waking a night at 2.4 for a good night is not great. ds has been hurting me at night as well with his suction latch. Cold turkey only as a last resort.

I've also had an early miscarriage recently and I'm still BFing my DD nearly 17 months. DH putting me under pressure to stop as blames the BFing. I did night wean her at just before 12 months had to do it a few more times after illnesses. It does take only 2 nights in our case - I send DH to see her if she wakes, and I set myself a time limit say 5am when i will feed her then each day move it 15mins until 6am.

However DD feeds 5-8 times a day, she is addicted. I have at times managed to get her down to 3 times a day but illness and now teething makes her an addict again. She is very bad at eating food but is very round, tall for her age and has a lovely mop of silky shiny hair - must be the BM. I have decided to stop at 2 years at the latest but dread having another miscarriage will start trying again next month again. I'm under time pressure due to age - also know the miscarriage could be due to age too.

blueshoes - he does feed a lot during the day, but i dont really mind that. Its just the night wakening thats getting me down, probably because i have a chest infection right now so am feeling cr&p

our ds now sleeps in his own bed next door so he just cimbs into our bed and pretty much helps himself.i honestly think i woudl need to move out for a few days, so that Dh woudl have to get up to him. neither of them woudl be very happy

i hadn't relaised how fortunate i was to conceive DS2 so easily (and stay pg! ) while i was bf so often. as well as being positively geriatric

for those of you who have had m/c