If BF was a struggle with DC1 (tongue-tie) is the same inevitable with DC2?

[CityDweller]

Had a tough time BF DC1 at the beginning. Tongue-tie, not diagnosed for a couple of weeks, so she was a very fussy feeder and I had shredded nipples and repeated mastitis. Took 3 goes at snipping her tie, and even then it was never quite right. We persevered though and she bf until 2, but bf didn't get 'easy' until she was about 6 months old.

I'm now pregnant with DC2 and am wondering - is it somewhat inevitable this one will be tongue-tied too (I've read it's genetic) and/or that BF will be a struggle again at the beginning?

Last time, it was pretty awful, but manageable because I could focus on it and, e.g, spend all day at BF drop-ins. This time round I can't imagine juggling that sort of bf experience and a toddler.

Any experiences of how bf was second time around?

Both of mine had tt. I had no pain with dc2 though. I think it made him swallow air so he was quite windy and unhappy when tiny but it was completely different to the shredded nipples from dc1.

No. I breast fed dc1 for 6 weeks and dc2 for 2. They/I didn't really 'get' it. It wasn't working for us. Conversely I breast fed dc3 for 8mths and dc4 for 10mths.

Dc3 just did it without me really doing anything within an hour of being born which gave me confidence with dc4.

I do agree with Tulip that it's as much to do with the baby as anything else.

No feeding DD1 was a struggle from the beginning but Dd2 latched on in the delivery suite fed on both sides & hasn't stopped since. I mix feed out of choice but with DD1 I had to top up & definitely not the case this time.
Good luck

Not inevitable.

Ds1 had a heap of problems stemming from his ties.

Ds2 has done apart from some very minor speech issues. He was a champion breastfeeder

My first one had a tongue tie successfully snipped at 7 days, then second didn't have a tongue tie at all. Both successfully breastfed until around 15 months. It isn't inevitable!

No totally different experiences.

Dd1 tongue tie undiagnosed for 8 weeks plus 4 snips led to 6 months of pain for me but fed till 14 months.
Dd2 checked a birth no tie uncomfortable for a couple of weeks but still feeding at 13 months.

Totally different experiences here too.

I fed DS1 for a month then expressed for a couple of weeks. I HATED it, it was painful and never ending and frustrating for both of us.

DS2 latched on like a dream and I have just weaned him now at 2.5.

Both mine were tt.
BUT, the difference for me was knowing what was wrong / right and being proactive.
After DS2 was born, and the midwife came back with the 10 fingers, 10 toes, all perfect report, I asked re TT. I was told he had a mild one, so asked for a referal staight away. We got one through the post a few days later. Might be worth asking, and getting in the system sooner rather than waiting to see if there is a problem.

Even with the tt, DS2 fed much more quickly, and less frequently than DS1.

Great, thank you all for the (mostly!) encouraging stories. And yes, at least I'll know what to look out for this time.

DD's tongue tie was hard to spot (even though it was quite severe - so a posterior one, I think) and latch on (albeit a v. shallow one), so all the mw said it was fine (even though I had shredded nipples and mastitis) and the gp refused me a referral because she was gaining weight. So, I don't have great faith that this time round if DC2 does have TT it would be spotted, or acknowledged, by the mws or docs... Last time I went private after about 3 weeks of misery, so will be prepared to do the same thing again...

My first 2 both had tongue ties but my 3rd didn't.

I did manage to bf all 3, but it was an absolute revelation how easy it was with DC3, and that he didn't bring vast quantities back up after every feed and at random times as the older 2 had (presumably they swallowed a lot of air).

DC3 can still stick his tongue out a lot further than the older 2 now they are older :o (sorry I know that's irrelevant, I didn't think if it when I decided not to get their ties snipped!)

Both my DSs were tongue tied, as is my DH.

DS1 was a partial posterior, diagnosed as "not that bad", missed by visual inspection, only discovered by the lactation expert by running her finger under his tongue. Feeding was a nightmare until it was snipped - 2h per feed, very slow, very painful. Snip = quick and painless, fed immediately afterwards, gradually improved feeding. Snip done ~2w.
DS2 - I expected to be TTd and he was, but his presentation was different. Also a partial posterior, but he gulped and guzzled, lots of clicking, also lots of pain, but much quicker feeder - which resulted in lots of air going down and lots of milk coming back up! He was booked to have it snipped at birth but that didn't happen, so it ended up taking 5w! By which time he'd "set" in a lot more bad habits than DS1 had. Snip still improved the pain though.

Both boys also had an upper lip tie which can also affect feeding - neither were treated, and I think that may have been more of a problem in DS2's case than DS1's - the upper lip can't flare out and create a decent vacuum, so DS2 used to "chew" a lot more than DS1 ever did.

Don't use your GP for a referral - talk to the MWs, especially the lactation consultants; in my case in the UK I was very lucky that the paediatrician in my hospital was doing a special study of tongue ties and revision, so a referral was easy and I had to fill in a feedback form to say how well it had worked.

If you can't get a referral, there are places that will do it privately; but also some dentists may consider doing a laser revision. There is a FB group for TT, you might consider finding that and joining?

Yes, I went private last time. The NHS bf counsellor (who was amazing, and came to my home many times, as I'd had a home birth) ended up recommending a private bf drop-in that also has a tongue-tie specialist. They were amazing, and was worth the £20 a time to attend the drop-in and the £100 or so it cost to get DD snipped. Even though it grew back each time (3 snips), it didn't grow back as much and meant that we continued bf'ing until 2 years.

However, that whole process was very time consuming and involved lots of travelling to and from bf drop-ins and meant that bf was pretty much all I could focus on for the first 4-6 weeks of her life. I can't imagine having that sort of time with DC2 as I'll have a 2.5yr old to deal with too.

Not inevitable but likely as it is genetic. But the difference is you'll know what to look for. DD1's posterior tie wasn't diagnosed til 8 weeks. DD2 is 9 days and I spotted the anterior tie the first time she cried, and it is being snipped this week. And despite it, she is feeding better than DD did pre-snip, because I am more confident and aware of the importance of good winding etc. Good luck!

Also DD1 is just a bit younger than your DC1 will be, and I've been amazed at how patient she has been with marathon breastfeeding sessions! But it has required me to be a bit less precious with feeding this time around eg interrupting feeds if needed, feeding on the floor while playing with her etc

Where are you based? there are LCs who can come to your house and do the TT snip there (friends in SW/W London have seen Yvonne Insh for example, in case you are in that neck of the woods) - that will be easier than all the travelling. £180 I think.

DD1, TT not diagnosed and snipped till 4 months - shredded cracked nipples, agonising pain, awful wind, no sleep blah blah.

DD2, diagnosed and snipped privately at 12 days. No pain, much
less wind (still a bit as I also have fast let down but so much less) and much more sleep!

it doesn't have to happen again

Slightly different for me OP, as apart from minor issues at the start due to my inexperience, breastfeeding my DD was easy, and I fed her until she was 2. My DS who is now 13 weeks has a tongue tie, which wasn't picked up on until he was 4 weeks. It's now been snipped 3 times (most recently yesterday!) and I'm really hoping that things will improve. Luckily he has still been gaining weight fine throughout, and when I tried expressing and giving milk in a bottle he didn't get on any better with that so I thought I may as well just carry on breastfeeding, it's what I really wanted to do anyway.

There's every chance it will be better for you next time but I just wanted to say even if you have the same issues again, it can still be done, even with a toddler to look after as well. Not easy but doable. And at least this time you would be prepared from the start.

Good luck

DS1 was never diagnosed with a TT though given he had several symptoms, a HCP really should have checked at some point . Problems with the latch from the beginning, including a couple of very long days where he wouldn't latch on at all and he had to be cup fed. Later he only fed with nipple shields from 1mo-4/5mo. Weight gain issues for the first month (dropped a couple of centile spaces). And recurrent mastitis for the first few months. Feeding was hard for the first couple of months, and wasn't easy until he was about 6mo.

DS2 latched on and had several mini feeds in the delivery room. He did have some problems latching on my 'difficult' side, but I was confident that if necessary I could feed him on just the one side, and he only lost an ounce or so at the 5 day check. I think he'd climbed a centile space by 2wo? I did visit my local support group a few times as the latch took some time to get just right on one side, but also because my confidence was a bit low after my experiences first time. He did turn out to have a TT, although I don't think it has affected feeding. Oh, and he fed for at most 10 minutes at a time which was convenient (though I did have an oversupply, so could have been that).

Sorry that's a bit long, but in summary, a different, more interested, baby, plus me having a clue what I was doing, made such a difference the second time.

DD1 - TT missed numerous times, spotted on day 5 by lactation consultant, snipped the next day. Repeat snip at 6 weeks. Managed to bf til 5 months despite a host of other unrelated problems

DD2 - TT missed again despite asking MWs to check numerous times, snipped privately on day 6. She is 3 weeks old today and had her last BF 4 days ago as my supply never caught up as we had to supplement with formula. If I didn't have 2yo DD1 to look after I would have happily sat on the sofa and BF all day to increase my supply.

Not the most positive of stories but my advice is if it works out then great! But if it doesn't and you've done everything you can then please don't beat yourself up (like I've done all week )