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Original poster

November 2013 - Stats Thread

37 replies

OneLittleToddleTerror · 12/04/2013 16:57

I'll start the list off from the last one I could find on thread 2. I've also got some age from the last few pages of thread 4. I know we did a big age tell you sometime earlier, but I couldn't find it Hmm

The list so far
Notsoold EDD 25th Oct. Baby no3
OneLittleToddleTerror. EDD 27th Oct. Baby no2
MTB82. EDD 28th Oct. Baby no1
Slippysnow. EDD 29th Oct. Baby no1
WhenSheWas. EDD 29th Oct. Baby no2
Diege. EDD 31st Oct. Baby no6
Heartonsleeve. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no1
SterlingS. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no1
Busyprocrastinating. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Mistyshore. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Wibblypig. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Whilewild. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Crazyhead. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
Harverine. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
GetOff. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
Honey. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no4
Suprisepitstop. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no1
Stuffthenonsense. 40 EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no6
Pegster. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no?
Ruby. EDD 3rd Nov. Baby no1
Suffolk. EDD 3rd Nov. Baby no2
Clementine82. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Hellington. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Berrybomb. 31 EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Icing. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no2
SaBearOz. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no2
DittyRatt. 20 EDD 5th Nov. Baby no3
Minesahotchocolate. EDD 5th Nov. Baby no2
Lexib. EDD 6th Nov. Baby no1
Fakebook. EDD 6th Nov. Baby no2?
CheeseandGherkins 7th Nov. Baby no 6 (possibly 7 too)
MotherOfCleo. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
GinSling82. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
The Sperminator. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
Ceramicunicorn. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no2
Williaminajetfighter. 43 EDD 7th Nov. Baby no2
Saundy. EDD. 8th Nov. Baby no1
Fairy. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no1
Dizzy81. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no1
Okavango. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no1
MrsTwinks. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no?
Newtothisstuff. EDD 9th Nov. Baby no3
Posabelle. EDD 9th Nov. Baby no?
PoppySeedBun. EDD 11th Nov. Baby no1
Retroelle. EDD 11th Nov. Baby no1
Lovesthechaos3. EDD 12th Nov. Baby no4
Minniemooo. EDD 13th Nov. Baby no2
Lozcat86. EDD 13th Nov. Baby no?
theboob EDD 14th Nov, Baby no? - twins
Artyone. EDD 14th Nov. Baby no1
BangOn. EDD 18th Nov. Baby no3
TiredFeet. EDD 21st Nov. Baby no2
ilovemilton. EDD 22nd Nov. Baby no?
JBrd. 41 EDD. 24th Nov. Baby no2
riverflow EDD 24th Nov.
Louby86. EDD 25th Nov. Baby no2
Ariel21. EDD 27th Nov. Baby no1
MsFanackerPants. EDD 28th Nov. Baby no1
Vocalista86. EDD 30th Nov. Baby no1

Unknown EDD
SpanishLady EDD ? - twins

People I noticed missing from the list
boymeetsworld
misstweed

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Set a reminder
theboob · 12/04/2013 17:25

can't do it on my phone

theboob edd 21st Nov baby number 5 and 6

Animol · 12/04/2013 17:37

I don't know how to add to it but mine is:

animol. EDD 13th Nov, Baby no 5

MummaPanda · 12/04/2013 17:52

I'm missing too but I won't have an edd til scan on tues, baby number 2 for me!

Fairydogmother · 12/04/2013 18:00

Mine has only changed a bit - edd now 3 November

Original poster
OneLittleToddleTerror · 12/04/2013 19:05

The list so far
Notsoold EDD 25th Oct. Baby no3
OneLittleToddleTerror. 38 EDD 27th Oct. Baby no2
MTB82. EDD 28th Oct. Baby no1
Slippysnow. EDD 29th Oct. Baby no1
WhenSheWas. EDD 29th Oct. Baby no2
Diege. EDD 31st Oct. Baby no6
Heartonsleeve. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no1
SterlingS. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no1
Busyprocrastinating. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Mistyshore. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Wibblypig. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Whilewild. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Crazyhead. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
Harverine. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
GetOff. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
Honey. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no4
Suprisepitstop. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no1
Stuffthenonsense. 40 EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no6
Pegster. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no?
Ruby. EDD 3rd Nov. Baby no1
Suffolk. EDD 3rd Nov. Baby no2
Fairy. EDD 3rd Nov. Baby no1
Clementine82. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Hellington. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Berrybomb. 31 EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Icing. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no2
SaBearOz. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no2
DittyRatt. 20 EDD 5th Nov. Baby no3
Minesahotchocolate. EDD 5th Nov. Baby no2
Lexib. EDD 6th Nov. Baby no1
Fakebook. EDD 6th Nov. Baby no2?
CheeseandGherkins 7th Nov. Baby no 6 (possibly 7 too)
MotherOfCleo. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
GinSling82. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
The Sperminator. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
Ceramicunicorn. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no2
Williaminajetfighter. 43 EDD 7th Nov. Baby no2
Saundy. EDD. 8th Nov. Baby no1
Dizzy81. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no1
Okavango. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no1
MrsTwinks. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no?
Newtothisstuff. EDD 9th Nov. Baby no3
Posabelle. EDD 9th Nov. Baby no?
PoppySeedBun. EDD 11th Nov. Baby no1
Retroelle. EDD 11th Nov. Baby no1
Lovesthechaos3. EDD 12th Nov. Baby no4
Minniemooo. EDD 13th Nov. Baby no2
Lozcat86. EDD 13th Nov. Baby no?
Animol. EDD 13th Nov, Baby no 5
Artyone. EDD 14th Nov. Baby no1
BangOn. EDD 18th Nov. Baby no3
TiredFeet. EDD 21st Nov. Baby no2
theboob EDD 21st Nov baby number 5 and 6
ilovemilton. EDD 22nd Nov. Baby no?
JBrd. 41 EDD. 24th Nov. Baby no2
riverflow EDD 24th Nov.
Louby86. EDD 25th Nov. Baby no2
Ariel21. EDD 27th Nov. Baby no1
MsFanackerPants. EDD 28th Nov. Baby no1
Vocalista86. EDD 30th Nov. Baby no1

Unknown EDD
SpanishLady EDD ? - twins
MummaPanda EDD ? Baby no 2

People I noticed missing from the list
boymeetsworld
misstweed

OP posts:
Fairydogmother · 12/04/2013 21:17

Well done one fab job

EcoHippyMum · 13/04/2013 01:57

Wow well done on this!!! My EDD is 8th Nov. Baby No.4!

MissTweed · 13/04/2013 05:25

EDD 28 nov 1st baby (33) Smile

MissTweed · 13/04/2013 05:57

Oops, baby brain Shock my EDD is 28th oct not nov )at the mo but I know it'll be dated later after the scan as I have long cycles

EcoHippyMum · 13/04/2013 09:29

Oh and I am 39 :D

Saundy · 13/04/2013 10:09

The list so far
Notsoold EDD 25th Oct. Baby no3
OneLittleToddleTerror. 38 EDD 27th Oct. Baby no2
MTB82. EDD 28th Oct. Baby no1
MissTweed EDD 28th Oct. Baby no.1
Slippysnow. EDD 29th Oct. Baby no1
WhenSheWas. EDD 29th Oct. Baby no2
Diege. EDD 31st Oct. Baby no6
Heartonsleeve. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no1
SterlingS. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no1
Busyprocrastinating. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Mistyshore. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Wibblypig. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Whilewild. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Crazyhead. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
Harverine. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
GetOff. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
Honey. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no4
Suprisepitstop. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no1
Stuffthenonsense. 40 EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no6
Pegster. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no?
Ruby. EDD 3rd Nov. Baby no1
Suffolk. EDD 3rd Nov. Baby no2
Fairy. EDD 3rd Nov. Baby no1
Clementine82. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Hellington. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Berrybomb. 31 EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Icing. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no2
SaBearOz. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no2
DittyRatt. 20 EDD 5th Nov. Baby no3
Minesahotchocolate. EDD 5th Nov. Baby no2
Lexib. EDD 6th Nov. Baby no1
Fakebook. EDD 6th Nov. Baby no2?
CheeseandGherkins 7th Nov. Baby no 6 (possibly 7 too)
MotherOfCleo. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
GinSling82. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
The Sperminator. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
Ceramicunicorn. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no2
Williaminajetfighter. 43 EDD 7th Nov. Baby no2
Saundy. 33 EDD. 8th Nov. Baby no1
EcoHippyMum 39 EDD. 8th Nov. Baby no4
Dizzy81. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no1
Okavango. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no1
MrsTwinks. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no?
Newtothisstuff. EDD 9th Nov. Baby no3
Posabelle. EDD 9th Nov. Baby no?
Retroelle. EDD 11th Nov. Baby no1
Lovesthechaos3. EDD 12th Nov. Baby no4
Minniemooo. EDD 13th Nov. Baby no2
Lozcat86. EDD 13th Nov. Baby no?
Animol. EDD 13th Nov, Baby no 5
Artyone. EDD 14th Nov. Baby no1
BangOn. EDD 18th Nov. Baby no3
TiredFeet. EDD 21st Nov. Baby no2
theboob EDD 21st Nov baby number 5 and 6
ilovemilton. EDD 22nd Nov. Baby no?
JBrd. 41 EDD. 24th Nov. Baby no2
riverflow EDD 24th Nov.
Louby86. EDD 25th Nov. Baby no2
Ariel21. EDD 27th Nov. Baby no1
MsFanackerPants. EDD 28th Nov. Baby no1
Vocalista86. EDD 30th Nov. Baby no1

Unknown EDD
SpanishLady EDD ? - twins
MummaPanda EDD ? Baby no 2

People I noticed missing from the list
boymeetsworld

riverflow · 13/04/2013 21:25

Thanks for this. Mine is baby number 1 (35 years old)

firsttimemummyy · 13/04/2013 23:40

The list so far
Notsoold EDD 25th Oct. Baby no3
OneLittleToddleTerror. 38 EDD 27th Oct. Baby no2
MTB82. EDD 28th Oct. Baby no1
MissTweed EDD 28th Oct. Baby no.1
Slippysnow. EDD 29th Oct. Baby no1
WhenSheWas. EDD 29th Oct. Baby no2
Diege. EDD 31st Oct. Baby no6
Heartonsleeve. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no1
SterlingS. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no1
Busyprocrastinating. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Mistyshore. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Wibblypig. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Whilewild. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Crazyhead. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
Harverine. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
GetOff. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
Honey. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no4
Suprisepitstop. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no1
Stuffthenonsense. 40 EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no6
Pegster. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no?
Ruby. EDD 3rd Nov. Baby no1
Suffolk. EDD 3rd Nov. Baby no2
Fairy. EDD 3rd Nov. Baby no1
Clementine82. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Hellington. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Berrybomb. 31 EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Icing. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no2
SaBearOz. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no2
firsttimemummyy EDD 5th Nov. Baby no1
DittyRatt. 20 EDD 5th Nov. Baby no3
Minesahotchocolate. EDD 5th Nov. Baby no2
Lexib. EDD 6th Nov. Baby no1
Fakebook. EDD 6th Nov. Baby no2?
CheeseandGherkins 7th Nov. Baby no 6 (possibly 7 too)
MotherOfCleo. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
GinSling82. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
The Sperminator. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
Ceramicunicorn. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no2
Williaminajetfighter. 43 EDD 7th Nov. Baby no2
Saundy. 33 EDD. 8th Nov. Baby no1
EcoHippyMum 39 EDD. 8th Nov. Baby no4
Dizzy81. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no1
Okavango. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no1
MrsTwinks. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no?
Newtothisstuff. EDD 9th Nov. Baby no3
Posabelle. EDD 9th Nov. Baby no?
Retroelle. EDD 11th Nov. Baby no1
Lovesthechaos3. EDD 12th Nov. Baby no4
Minniemooo. EDD 13th Nov. Baby no2
Lozcat86. EDD 13th Nov. Baby no?
Animol. EDD 13th Nov, Baby no 5
Artyone. EDD 14th Nov. Baby no1
BangOn. EDD 18th Nov. Baby no3
TiredFeet. EDD 21st Nov. Baby no2
theboob EDD 21st Nov baby number 5 and 6
ilovemilton. EDD 22nd Nov. Baby no?
JBrd. 41 EDD. 24th Nov. Baby no2
riverflow EDD 24th Nov. Baby no1
Louby86. EDD 25th Nov. Baby no2
Ariel21. EDD 27th Nov. Baby no1
MsFanackerPants. EDD 28th Nov. Baby no1
Vocalista86. EDD 30th Nov. Baby no1

Unknown EDD
SpanishLady EDD ? - twins
MummaPanda EDD ? Baby no 2

People I noticed missing from the list
boymeetsworld

mycatlikestwiglets · 14/04/2013 13:43

Can someone more technology savvy please add me?

mycatlikestwiglets, EDD 30th Oct, baby no. 2

Lozcat86 · 14/04/2013 13:52

edd 13th November with baby no. 1 x

MissTweed · 15/04/2013 11:04

My new EDD (post scan) is 24th October and I'm 33 Smile

cuckooplusone · 15/04/2013 17:30

Hello my edd is 11 Nov, baby 2 (dd is already a galumping 7!)

MummaPanda · 16/04/2013 11:18

Can someone add me pls?

Mummapanda EDD 7th Nov, baby 2, I'm 22

Grin
Original poster
OneLittleToddleTerror · 16/04/2013 16:24

Removing myself and adding all the changes

The list so far
MissTweed 33 EDD 24th Oct. Baby no.1
Notsoold EDD 25th Oct. Baby no3
MTB82. EDD 28th Oct. Baby no1
Slippysnow. EDD 29th Oct. Baby no1
WhenSheWas. EDD 29th Oct. Baby no2
mycatlikestwiglets, EDD 30th Oct, baby no. 2
Diege. EDD 31st Oct. Baby no6
Heartonsleeve. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no1
SterlingS. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no1
Busyprocrastinating. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Mistyshore. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Wibblypig. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Whilewild. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Crazyhead. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
Harverine. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
GetOff. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
Honey. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no4
Suprisepitstop. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no1
Stuffthenonsense. 40 EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no6
Pegster. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no?
Ruby. EDD 3rd Nov. Baby no1
Suffolk. EDD 3rd Nov. Baby no2
Fairy. EDD 3rd Nov. Baby no1
Clementine82. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Hellington. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Berrybomb. 31 EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Icing. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no2
SaBearOz. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no2
firsttimemummyy EDD 5th Nov. Baby no1
DittyRatt. 20 EDD 5th Nov. Baby no3
Minesahotchocolate. EDD 5th Nov. Baby no2
Lexib. EDD 6th Nov. Baby no1
Fakebook. EDD 6th Nov. Baby no2?
CheeseandGherkins 7th Nov. Baby no 6 (possibly 7 too)
MotherOfCleo. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
GinSling82. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
The Sperminator. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
Ceramicunicorn. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no2
Williaminajetfighter. 43 EDD 7th Nov. Baby no2
Mummapanda 22 EDD 7th Nov, baby 2
Saundy. 33 EDD. 8th Nov. Baby no1
EcoHippyMum 39 EDD. 8th Nov. Baby no4
Dizzy81. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no1
Okavango. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no1
MrsTwinks. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no?
Newtothisstuff. EDD 9th Nov. Baby no3
Posabelle. EDD 9th Nov. Baby no?
cuckooplusone EDD 11 Nov Baby 2 (7yo DD)
Retroelle. EDD 11th Nov. Baby no1
Lovesthechaos3. EDD 12th Nov. Baby no4
Minniemooo. EDD 13th Nov. Baby no2
Lozcat86. EDD 13th Nov. Baby no1
Animol. EDD 13th Nov, Baby no 5
Artyone. EDD 14th Nov. Baby no1
BangOn. EDD 18th Nov. Baby no3
TiredFeet. EDD 21st Nov. Baby no2
theboob EDD 21st Nov baby number 5 and 6
ilovemilton. EDD 22nd Nov. Baby no?
JBrd. 41 EDD. 24th Nov. Baby no2
riverflow 35 EDD 24th Nov. Baby no1
Louby86. EDD 25th Nov. Baby no2
Ariel21. EDD 27th Nov. Baby no1
MsFanackerPants. EDD 28th Nov. Baby no1
Vocalista86. EDD 30th Nov. Baby no1

Unknown EDD
SpanishLady EDD ? - twins

People I noticed missing from the list
boymeetsworld

OP posts:
gubbinsy · 18/04/2013 11:50

Could someone add me please?

Gubbinsy EDD 12 Nov Baby No. 1

Saundy · 19/04/2013 10:25

The list so far

MissTweed 33 EDD 24th Oct. Baby no.1

Notsoold EDD 25th Oct. Baby no3

MTB82. EDD 28th Oct. Baby no1

Slippysnow. EDD 29th Oct. Baby no1
WhenSheWas. EDD 29th Oct. Baby no2

mycatlikestwiglets, EDD 30th Oct, baby no. 2

Diege. EDD 31st Oct. Baby no6

Heartonsleeve. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no1
SterlingS. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no1
Busyprocrastinating. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Mistyshore. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Wibblypig. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2
Whilewild. EDD 1st Nov. Baby no2

Crazyhead. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
Harverine. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
GetOff. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no2
Honey. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no4
Suprisepitstop. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no1
Stuffthenonsense. 40 EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no6
Pegster. EDD 2nd Nov. Baby no?

Ruby. EDD 3rd Nov. Baby no1
Suffolk. EDD 3rd Nov. Baby no2
Fairy. EDD 3rd Nov. Baby no1

Clementine82. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Hellington. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Berrybomb. 31 EDD 4th Nov. Baby no1
Icing. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no2
SaBearOz. EDD 4th Nov. Baby no2

firsttimemummyy EDD 5th Nov. Baby no1
DittyRatt. 20 EDD 5th Nov. Baby no3
Minesahotchocolate. EDD 5th Nov. Baby no2

Lexib. EDD 6th Nov. Baby no1
Fakebook. EDD 6th Nov. Baby no2?

CheeseandGherkins 7th Nov. Baby no 6 (possibly 7 too)
MotherOfCleo. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
GinSling82. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
The Sperminator. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no1
Ceramicunicorn. EDD 7th Nov. Baby no2
Williaminajetfighter. 43 EDD 7th Nov. Baby no2
Mummapanda 22 EDD 7th Nov, baby 2

Saundy. 33 EDD. 8th Nov. Baby no1
EcoHippyMum 39 EDD. 8th Nov. Baby no4
Dizzy81. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no1
Okavango. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no1
MrsTwinks. EDD 8th Nov. Baby no?

Newtothisstuff. EDD 9th Nov. Baby no3
Posabelle. EDD 9th Nov. Baby no?

cuckooplusone EDD 11 Nov Baby 2 (7yo DD)
Retroelle. EDD 11th Nov. Baby no1

Lovesthechaos3. EDD 12th Nov. Baby no4
Gubbinsy EDD 12 Nov Baby No. 1

Minniemooo. EDD 13th Nov. Baby no2
Lozcat86. EDD 13th Nov. Baby no1
Animol. EDD 13th Nov, Baby no 5

Artyone. EDD 14th Nov. Baby no1

BangOn. EDD 18th Nov. Baby no3

TiredFeet. EDD 21st Nov. Baby no2
theboob EDD 21st Nov baby number 5 & 6

ilovemilton. EDD 22nd Nov. Baby no?

JBrd. 41 EDD. 24th Nov. Baby no2
riverflow 35 EDD 24th Nov. Baby no1

Louby86. EDD 25th Nov. Baby no2

Ariel21. EDD 27th Nov. Baby no1

MsFanackerPants. EDD 28th Nov. Baby no1

Vocalista86. EDD 30th Nov. Baby no1

Unknown EDD
SpanishLady EDD ? - twins

People I noticed missing from the list
boymeetsworld

MummaPanda · 22/04/2013 18:51

Seem to have lost this off my threads. So bump Grin

MissTweed · 23/04/2013 09:54

Bumping too

YummyMummy17 · 27/04/2013 07:59

Wow! So many !!

My EDD is 3rd November 2013 ThanksGrin

MummaPanda · 30/04/2013 13:29

Can someone change my date? I've upgraded to 3rd Nov!