DD is just being 3 right? And we've just got to ride it out haven't we?

[Eatriskier]

DD is 3.5 and I think may be a teenager already. She's always been very bright, quick and quite stubborn but we were lucky in that she never really suffered the terrible twos. But boy are we paying now.

She won't listen normal I'm guessing, doesn't really respond to offers of treats or tellings off. Star charts/rewards/etc work great for a month or so and then she literally doesn't care (even when we've tried removing stars for bad behaviour - she now doesn't give a flying @£%£ about it). We've tried everything we can think of within reason and like I say, she will work with us for about a month and then reverts back. If she's really playing up she widdles everywhere on purpose (definitely on purpose, she find's it hilarious).

We've been putting it down to over tiredness a lot. She needs a daily nap, but doesn't always take one. If she had a consistent 40 mins I reckon a lot of this wouldn't be as bad. Nursery (2 days a week) have been great in encouraging this but obviously can't force her, MIL just won't enforce it no matter how tired DD is and we're having our own battle there. She acted up so much at nursery and when she's come home I've put her to bed early and she's gone so tiredness obviously does play some factor (despite her having napped today).

This is all fairly normal right? It's going to get better isn't it?

I'm wondering if normal too. My DS 3.8 is exactly how you are describing, I often find myself thinking 'are you deliberately winding me up' - He's either an angel or the opposite! No inbetween with him. I'm a believer that 3 is harder than two. You are not alone. I'm waiting ( longing ) for the magic 4's that I hear mumsnetters on about.

If she won't sleep during the day would something like "Quiet time" help? My DD (2 yrs) has pretty much stopped napping, even though she needs it, and I've started putting her in her room after lunch, with a CD playing (usually nursery rhymes). She has to play quietly until the CD is finished. It's working surprisingly well and even though she still needs to have a nap (but won't) her behaviour in the afternoons has improved a lot.

What is your philosophy on discipline? Would Time Outs be an option for you? My sister's children went through a phase of being destructive with their house - ruining wallpaper, drawing on newly painted walls, bashing door handles into the walls, etc - and what fixed it was making them sit on a chair until they were ready to say sorry. They were 5 and 3 at the time. So maybe something like that, if you're willing?

At this age they are pushing boundaries, seeing what they can get away with, so IMO it's definitely normal in that sense.

Oh yeah, DS is four next month and is (I hope) starting to emerge from his "threenager" behaviour.

I think all you can do is be consistent. Whatever consequences you use (lack of rewards, time out, taking away of favourite toy, etc) enforce it consistently.

And wait it out

Thanks all. Sometimes knowing you're not alone helps more than anything!

grouchy we've tried quiet time and we do time outs for bad behaviour alongside rewards for good behaviour. Unfortunately she really does need a sleep, quiet time may give me a break if she stays quiet but ultimately does nothing to improve her behaviour. Also quite often if she knows ds is sleeping she will not stay quiet, wake him and then I have two very grumpy children in desperate need of sleep. She's also become very resistant to time out when tired, and the battle can go on longer than the time out sometimes. Usually the option of timing out of going to bed makes her choose to give into the time out. When just acting up she does respect time out a lot more.

Also waiting out a 'threenager' here.

DS (3.9) is going through a defiant phase. Not listening, throwing stuff, kicking toys etc etc. He is always worse when tired or hungry. I think consistency is the key and Koala is definately right about following through on threats.