Dogs chasing squirrels

[Livpool]

Walking in the park today with DH and DS , saw 2 lots of dog owners cheering on their dogs chasing squirrels, obviously off lead. Like whooping and cheering - did they think anyone else wanted to see a wild animal potentially be ripped about by someone’s pet?!

I don’t have dogs as I am allergic but is this normal behaviour? Seems unnecessary cruel to the poor squirrel.

My dog could probably kill an adult deer. Maybe not from immediate injuries but shock and all that after whatever they did in the attack.

Yesterday I saw a cat chasing a squirrel in our garden. Not sure if it’s caught it or not. Never seen that before.

In one of the cleaning groups I am in, one of the themed pics cleaners upload are gifts from cats. Squirrels feature at least once a month.

Interesting question. I live in the sort of environment where this just wouldn't be an issue or come up as an issue so I hadn't thought about it.

Having considered it for a bit, I think this is one of those ones where I would instinctively want to differentiate clearly between wild and tame/domestic. For example, if you're walking your dog in a genuine wilderness - the Scottish highlands or something - then no, I don't think I would feel bad if your dog chased a deer. I have family who live in the middle of nowhere in other countries and I know their dog regularly chases wildlife in the form of rabbits/hares etc and it's all considered perfectly normal (if the dog isn't chasing it, the farmers are trapping and killing them for the pot).

But I can see it getting a bit more grey in a place like, for example, Richmond Park, where the deer are technically wild but I imagine are far more likely to be semi-domesticated in that they're used to people, cars etc so less likely to startle as easily and may not be "truly" wild in that context. In which case, no, I don't think I'd let a dog chase them. But, again, thinking about it, I think that's more about the fact that in the real wild, a dog COULD bring down a deer or whatever, but it would be unusual and the entire ecosystem is based on the assumption that deer are permanently on alert, whereas with a semi-tame animal in Richmond Park, I can totally imagine it being far more possible as the deer are less likely to be as alert to humans and dogs in the area in the first place and therefore disproportionately vulnerable.

Squirrels - otally used to dogs and definitely seldom vulnerable.

Well that's why I specified a baby deer at first. Their mums often leave them in a spot for a while to go off and feed (have a bloody break probably). But I can't tell my dog that the deer in Richmond Park are not ok to chase and these ones are. So that's why you just teach your dogs not to chase any animals outside of a specific, appropriate activity. It's hard work! That's why some of those smaller working breeds aren't really possible to own in city environments and correctly curb their behaviours to a responsible level. You're always banking on the fact that any damage they do will be minimal.

Sure. Circle of life, innit. 😝

Dammit - me too now. What am I gonna do?

I have tried with my dickhead Labrador. She was really good until adolescence and trying to get her back to that is a struggle. I’ll keep at it!

But they’re rarely killed, as my post explains. The squirrel runs up the tree and that’s the end of it. My dog used to chase squirrels but got bored with it quite quickly because nothing ever came of it.

I have to admit, that I didn't walk in places like Richmond park often but the few times I met friends there, I did tend to keep my dog on the lead. Never mind anything else, I didn't want her getting lost or hurt which was a possibility.

So I think this is another one where it's about responsible owners. I do see your point about if you teach them not to chase ANYTHING, that will apply to everything and that has definite benefits if, for example, you're somewhere that your dog might then chase somethign it shouldn't. But my dog only ever was allowed to chase squirrels and I'm sorry, I still can't feel bad about that. Just like I don't feel bad about toddlers chasing pigeons away! :)

Richmond Park is absolutely not a grey area. You're referring to a wildlife crime. Dogs need to be on a lead when you are in close proximity to the deer.

Many years ago - it must be at least 30 years ago, I was walking along a quiet avenue in Didsbury and I heard this almighty yeowling. A grey squirrel had its teeth clamped on a cat's paw and it wasn't letting go. At a guess, the cat was "only playing" and learned the hard way when the squirrel got sick of the "game"

So you never, ever have her off the leash until you have perfect recall in all situations. Do you let her off knowing she's a dickhead?

Right so you are okay with dogs harassing wildlife. That's an opinion some people hold.

I am concerned about dogs behaviour generally as there seems to be a lot of irresponsible owners at the moment and it is frustrating to see. My allergy to dogs means I don’t have much to do with them or else my asthma gets set off.

The people yesterday just pissed me off. I’m sure they wouldn’t have cheered on a bigger dog chasing theirs.

squirrels? Yup. I am.

You can be upset with me, but it won't change my view. Squirrels rarely come to harm from dogs chasing them, and the very very odd one that does get caught.... that's just the cycle of life. Pigeons are not traumatised when small children chase them.

Baby deers die in the wild all the time and no, I wouldn't let my dog chase a baby deer in Richmond park, but I'm not going to get worked up about a deer being hunted in the actual wild. And it's a pretty well known fact it's the old and the young and the weak that carnivores mostly kill - because they're more vulnerable.

Everything you've said about squirrels applies to deer.

I intrinsically disagree. For a start, deer in parks are far less widespread. Also, baby deer in parks are far more likely to actually be harmed by a dog and, cyncially, they're far harder to replace as they're not breeding at the same level as squirrels.

Also squirrels and other animals that have lived around humans for a long time have adapted accordingly and are used to living alongside us, in a way that deer aren't.

Besides, I've also said that in the "proper wild" I wouldn't be particualrly upset about any animal that chases a deer. I think that's just life.

I once accidentally ruined the opportunity for two lions to hunt a lone zebra while in a game reserve. I felt bad.... for the lion, not the zebra. The lions were just doing what came naturally in the wild and me, the human, ruined it for them by shouting loudly and frightening the zebra.

Okay, so you know, it's illegal for your dog to chase wildlife. People just care less about squirrels. Deer are quite common in the suburbs of London.

I think there's the legal side of things but the moral and ethical side of things is important too. I don't think it's right to let your dogs kill wildlife, in public parks or just for fun.

It's not about whether deer and squirrels are traumatized. It's about having respect for nature. That is sadly lacking in our world.

If your dog chases a squirrel that's one thing. But actively encouraging it is another.

There's also the question of whether the dog is under control.

Some people have dogs as pest control in working environments. That's a different matter.

"It's illegal for your dog to chase wildlife"

Sorry to nitpick but ... That’s not actually what the law says. The Hunting Act 2004 makes it an offence for someone to deliberately hunt a wild mammal with a dog. It doesn’t mean that a dog instinctively chasing a rabbit is automatically breaking the law, or that its owner has committed an offence.

The CPS guidance is pretty clear on this. It says that hunting is an intentional activity and that if a dog goes off on its own and hunts of its own accord, without its owner’s involvement, that’s not an offence under the Act.

So there’s a difference between deliberately using a dog to hunt wildlife and a dog spotting a rabbit and giving chase. They’re not legally the same thing.

I bet the same bloody people who are up in arms about a cockerpoo chasing a squirrel completely condone or ignore the fact that domestic cats account for the deaths of 55 million birds a year. Their own cat is probably one of them.

That's native birds, some of which are becoming vulnerable species.

Grey squirrels aren't native, have contributed to the demise of the native red squirrel and the likelihood of "Bonnie the Beagle" catching one is virtually non existent.

Concentrate on preserving the native species all the bloody cats and grey squirrels are annihilating instead of worrying about bloody nonsense.

If you take your dog to parks every day and allow them to chase squirrels as part of their normal activities, then what you're doing is hunting squirrels with them.

The only thing that stops your dog killing the squirrel is the fact that your dog is slower. If the squirrel is compromised somehow, your dog will catch it and kill it. So you're taking your dog out to hunt squirrels, it just isn't very good at it.

1. Hunting Act 2004

Under this Act, both grey and red squirrels are fully covered. The Rule: The Act makes it an offense to intentionally hunt any "wild mammal" with a dog. No Exemption: While the Act provides strict exceptions allowing dogs to hunt rats and rabbits, squirrels are not exempted. Chasing Impact: It is illegal to deliberately encourage, train, or permit your dog to chase any squirrel. However, the prosecution must prove intent.

Hunting Act 2004 & Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Act 2023

• The Offence: Deliberately encouraging, training, or permitting a dog to chase wild mammals (like deer, foxes, or hares) constitutes illegal hunting.
• Chasing Impact: Even if an owner claims they were "just letting the dog exercise," if there is evidence of intent to let the dog pursue wildlife, it is handled as an illegal hunting or poaching offence. In a notable prosecution under Scotland's updated 2023 framework, an owner was fined and banned from owning dogs for five years after his lurcher chased and severely injured a deer during a hare hunt.

Dangerous Dogs Act 1991

Chasing Impact: If a dog chases wildlife—such as a deer in a public park—and the chase leads to an attack or causes a public safety hazard (e.g., the deer bolts into a road or toward people), the handler can be criminally prosecuted under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991. For non-injury or purely accidental chases where the dog ignores commands, civil proceedings can still be brought under the Dogs Act 1871 to declare the dog out of proper control.

No, but if you can't recall your off-leash dog and then allow it to continue to chase rabbits, you are hunting rabbits. If you return every day and do the same thing knowing that you haven't worked on their impulse control, then you are definitely hunting rabbits.

Get mad at cats if you’re going to get mad at anyone/anything. They’re the ones stalking around everywhere killing whatever they can. Get upset about their owners letting them out without a lead on and without supervising them. And before any cat lovers come on here and try to talk rubbish about how it’s acceptable for cats to be let loose out the house but not dogs, I won’t be reading it.