20 month old sleep. AIBU to want it sorted now

[Homeedhelp25]

Hi all, I have a 20 month old and need some outside perspective on sleep (or lack of!). Is this normal...

Routine has been the same since day 1, dinner, upstairs, bath, story and breastfeed to sleep around 7.30. Asleep for anytime between 7.30 and 8.15 depending on how organised I am. Cot still by my bed because of frequent night wakes.

Wake-ups more frequent when younger but now there's a pattern of one wake-up now between 10 and midnight where I need to go up, quick feed back to sleep and will settle again for another hour or two. Wake ups then happen like this all night, every two hours, sometimes less where I need to pick up and feed to sleep. If I try to soothe in other ways I just get tears and screaming. Some nights I'm so tired I started giving a sippy cup once with cows milk and now that's become a habit which does help settle, but only for the same length of time before I need to start the process again. It's exhausting.

Nap is usually 12.30-2ish, give or take 30 mins either side. 3 meals, 2 snacks a day plus breastfeeding on demand which now is before nap, breakfast and then all through the night.

Development seems fine, switched on and happy but does seem to be slower with speech compared to others. Not enough for health visitor to be worried just yet and we are seeing improvement every day

AIBU to think this level of sleep deprivation isn't normal? Newborn days were easier. What can I do to fix this without resorting to cry it out?

I could have written this post myself a few months ago!
I was cosleeping and still waking every 2-4 hours and it was just boob to sleep comfort required, not real hunger or thirst.
do you have a partner available?
the only thing that stopped it for us was my partner putting her to bed and doing all the night wakes. It took around 4 days of it being tough for him and then it got much easier. She wouldn’t stay awake as long with him as with me. They can’t understand why you would withhold the boob so they get more upset with you and it lasts ages.

i would recommend getting the book booby moon to help them understand that boob is asleep during the night. We read it every day to prepare her for the night but also the eventual weaning (planning to stop age 2) There’s also another one about nurses when the sun shines but I only have booby moon.

No it isn’t normal. Once they are on 3 meals a day with snacks and a bottle of milk before bed they’ve definitely had enough for the day. When my were little once they reached this stage there was absolutely no milk given during the night.

If they woke they would be offered a bottle of water. I really stuck to my guns with this and remember once even carrying up their pram and rocking back and forth for a couple of hours to go to sleep.

Within days my little ones knew there was no point waking up for milk as they weren’t getting any and just slept through. Bliss!

They were much younger than yours is too. I would suggest move your child into their own bedroom and offer water only during the night. Yes, it will be hard for a night or two but then everything falls into place and everyone starts getting the sleep they need.

Its the challenge of breaking the routine.

They have learned that if they wake up and cry they get boob to go back to sleep so thats what they do as thats what you have taught then.

As above, tell them booby doesn't work at night and offer a sip of water.

Yes it will be tough for a few nights but you either have to keep going as you are, or teach them to self settle using a different method.

You might find it easier putting them in their own room.

She’s only small. Mine were 3/3.5y before they slept all night. Also sleep needs drop with age. Are you offering too much sleep ? Mine slept better once daytime naps phased out. Napping toddlers can have much later bedtimes like 9/10pm. Bedtime naturally moves earlier then when daytime naps drop.
my three slept much better in my bed beside me, and I wasn’t getting up and down all night. Are you in a good breastfeeding support group ? eg LaLecheLeague in real life or FB group breastfeeding older babies and beyond. Also the FB group “beyond sleep training project” has great peer sleep support with no crying it out or sleep training.
I found this age v hard with my three. Because I was back at work and still having broken sleep, and everyone talks about the newborn trenches. But not as much about the toddler trenches !
if night weaning from breastfeeding is something you want to try- Emma Pickett ibclc has some good articles and a podcast (milk matters) on how to do this gently.

I broke this habit by giving my children water in the night

I would just cut out the BF. It’s now a habit. She’s on proper food and milk during the day. Also her own room would be a good idea.

What time is morning wake up? When they’re waking up so frequently in the night it usually indicates they’re under tired.

This Is definitely a learnt soothing habit rather than needing to feed so by offering water they have to learn to soothe themselves & become less likely to disturb you.
I would use this as a time to put them in their own room & have your dp go into them at nighttime. It won’t be fun for a few days but will help you all in the long term. Good luck

My toddler is a couple of months older and we cosleep, he was the same until very recently and now is suddenly sleeping 5/6 hour stretches, it’s glorious. So no need to break a habit for us, just getting a bit older and getting through some teething discomfort.

That does sound like a short afternoon wake window though? We finish naps at 2, bedtime is 9 on a good night. Earlier would mean he’d be awake for hours in the night, if he even fell asleep.

For 20 months this has been her normal.

She doesn't understand how frustrated this makes you, she just knows what she wants and what works for her to achieve this - which is totally normal for a baby/toddler.

If you want to change this, then you have to put quite a bit of effort into doing so, because she likes it and will resist it and toddlers are good at resistance.

She still needs comfort and reassurance at night, it's a scary time for small children. You just need to provide this comfort without food.

So switch to water only. Water and cuddles, patting, shushing, reassurance that you are still there and love her.

Don't go to cry it out where you withdraw all care and leave a frightened child who doesn't understand what is going on.

I think changing too many things at once will be a problem - so crack the feeding first and then in a while maybe look at her own room - but this will be something else scary for her, as she can't see or hear you, which is her normal.

This is how we sorted it around 23 months (mine went through phases of fab sleep, then start teething, all went out the window and we would then have to "sleep train" per the below again):

Water, not milk in the night. I am also still BF so I know how hard you must be finding it.

If there is a DH, he should suck it up and try to settle. Toddler won't like it and will scream bloody murder but will get used to it quickly.

Move him to his own room. Wait a couple of minutes before your or DH go in each time. He needs to learn there is no instant access to mum anymore.

Nurofen or calpol every evening while you attempt this, just in case he is in pain.

It was normal for both of my dc. I tried everything (except leaving them to cry which I don't believe in) but they just weren't good sleepers for a long time. When they hit 3, both of them naturally started sleeping through the night.

We survived by co-sleeping at times, and dividing up the night so we both got some sleep, but honestly it was hard.

I don't regret that we stuck with it, though.

I don't think feeding them is the answer. A 20 month old should be able to get through the night without it.

They're looking for comfort and have got onto the routine. I'd attempt to not get them out of the cot and potentially move them into their own bedroom (if possible)

Some kids are just like this unfortunately - it's really hard. I had two like it. I night weaned them both but it didn't make any difference to the sleep for one, for the other it made it worse as I couldn't get him back to sleep. One of them started sleeping better around the age of 3 I think (the less said about the other, the better). It's brutal.

Try the advice others have given, it might work, fingers crossed for you that it does, it didn't for me but it does for some. If it doesn't work for you, they will probably tell you it is because you didn't try hard enough - this won't be true, some children just do not sleep, one of my children is a lot older now and still doesn't sleep but we manage now. Best of luck but just be aware it can be normal. Sorry you're going through it, it's really tough.

Things to try: stop breastfeeding to sleep, cap the nap and have your partner go in for a few nights and make sure you aren’t an option at all. Your baby will be cross about this but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it! They need a well rested parent more.
Also it’s really important for their teeth to stop the sippy cup of milk in the night asap, whatever else you end up doing!

My second child woke every 2 hours ish until he was two! Seemed to just want cuddles and to be upright, we did get 4-5 hours stints of sleep occasionally from around 18months. it was absolutely exhausting! Then randomly from the night of his 2nd birthday he started sleeping through! It was heaven! His 11 now and still sleeps like a log and is asleep as soon as his head hits the pillow. I don't get any cuddles anymore though 😢😫

My eldest slept through as soon as he was started on solids from 6 months. Both exclusively breast fed for 5/6 months. Both same house, same bedrooms same parents, same boobs! I don't think there is a 'normal' Just like some adults sleep a solid 8 hours a night and some are up every 2 hours or can't nod off until 3am.

Only difference is I wasn't feeding him in the night at 20months, just cuddles seemed to soothe him by then. First 6 months he was permanently attached to my body in some way! But I definitely wouldn't have fed him in the night bottle or breast at that age, he shouldn't be hungry.

So my total sympathies, it's bloody hard. My mum came once to help with the kids while my husband was working and I escaped to a hotel for a night as I'd just reached the stage of total exhaustion! That was a God send.

Stopping feeding to sleep fixed this for us. I would only breastfeed during the daytime, and definitely no cows milk in the night. Water only.

This is the best advice I’ve seen here.

Yes. Much better for their teeth too!

Some kids are like this. I night weaned at around 18 months for the same reason, my child still woke up at least twice a night until he was 3.5 - the general trend was always improving though even if we did have a month or two slide back. It will get better.

I know that isn’t helpful at all but I think sometimes people can make you feel like you’ve done something wrong or broken your kid but really, some are just like this.

I would night wean though if I were you just to take the pressure off it all being you. I’m still glad I did when I did even though it didn’t improve sleep!

I cosleep and breastfeed - makes everything much easier! I don’t put DC to bed nearly so early as you - they only sleep 9 hours at night typically so would be awake ridiculously early and I’m not up for that!

I disagree with PPs saying a 1yo breastfeeding at night isn’t normal and they “shouldn’t” be doing it. Who says? It definitely is normal for the species 🤣 Might not be convenient if cosleeping doesn’t work for you, but it is normal. No guarantees night weaning will improve sleep unfortunately.

Does sound like your DC is waking a lot if every 2 hours, which is a pain! Do you have a breastfeeding support charity near you that could advise?

you are absolutely not being unreasonable to want better sleep for yourself and also not at all unreasonable not to want to do cry it out.

stop giving cow's milk overnight, it's not good for their teeth.

If I try to soothe in other ways I just get tears and screaming
yes - of course he will cry when he doesnt get boob in the middle of the night when that's what he's used to. I bet he also cries when you don't let him run across the road or tell him it's time to leave the playground or not to put sticks in his mouth. That doesn't mean you arent allowed to draw and hold the boundary. It's not Cry it out if you are there cuddling and comforting him while he gets used to it (for mine it took 3 nights of crying while being cuddled).

Personally i stopped feeding to sleep first before i night-weaned but i have seen lots of responsive sleep coaches on line support doing it the other way round if you prefer. @ littlenestsleep and @ secondstartotheright and @ heysleepybaby all talk about this.

see also Dr Jay Gordon on nightweaning.

also - you can continue sharing a room/bed if you like - also totally biologically normal. I know Id rather do a quick cuddle or squeeze to resettle than get up and go to another room and then back to my bed.

They’ll be smelling your milk. Move into their own room, even if for a short while it makes it harder for you because you can’t just pick them up from bed