AIBU to think this is a bizarre way for a senior director to speak to another director?

[Boxhike]

I’m a director (not statutory and neither is he or many of us!) and lead a fairly large operational team within a national company. I’m not as senior as the person involved, but I have responsibility for my own function/team and have been doing the job for years.
There’s been an ongoing discussion about a system/process that directly affects my operation. A senior director from elsewhere in the business wanted to have a meeting about my operation without me and update me afterwards.
I pushed back and basically said absolutely include yourself in the discussion, but as this specifically relates to my operation and my team, I think I should be included rather than briefed afterwards.
His response included “before you try to pull rank and tell me what to do” followed by “just in case you are unaware, I’m a Senior Director.”
He then brought up alleged failures by members of my team, said they “blatantly” don’t follow agreed processes and questioned how professionally I was representing the company.
I replied very briefly saying I was fully aware of his role, that my email was simply to ensure my office was represented in discussions specifically relating to the operation I lead, and that I was comfortable my position was clear. I finished with “I’ll leave the wider commentary in your email with you.”
He then replied “I don’t need any further responses on this email.”
What makes it stranger is that I’ve since looked back at emails where another male director of the same seniority challenged him quite robustly on the same project. He responded completely normally. Discussed the issue, no mention of rank, no criticism of professionalism and no attempt to shut him down.
Apparently this has now continued behind the scenes, with lengthy emails being sent to another senior director about my apparent “cheekiness”, despite me not responding further.
I’m genuinely interested in how this would be viewed in other corporate environments.
I’m perfectly used to disagreement and being told no. If he’d simply said “this sits within my remit and this is how we’re going to handle it”, I might disagree but wouldn’t think twice about it.
It’s the “don’t pull rank/I’m a Senior Director/don’t respond again” stuff that I find extraordinary. In my own office senior people simply don’t communicate with each other like that.
AIBU to think this is an inappropriate way for a senior director to deal with professional challenge, or is this kind of hierarchy/status stuff normal in bigger corporate organisations?

I agree - that is not right, and it quite disrespectful really. I’d ask for a one to one with him and ask him respectfully to give you some clear feedback - my guess is that he won’t want to as it would involve him agreeing that he is a sexist pillock!

No way we can know this.

You either responded defensively and your approach (tone/style) wasn’t okay, you over questioned in past, you don’t let things go etc and he felt he needed to respond the way he did

or

He was doubling down because you questioned him.

Senior people are allowed to talk about your area without you. You did question his authority by suggesting he shouldn’t do this without you there.

Your email (?) was dismissive.

You don’t come out smelling of roses because your back was up.

Wouldn't even register in my day. Non issue. Let it go.

Are you a new director? In my experience this kind of weird, territorial “willy waggling” isn’t uncommon. At all. Ignore, remain professional and follow EVERYTHING up via email .
But I also disagree with PP. If it’s your department, then no, a senior director doesn’t get involved without you and your input. Unless it’s you under review, which is an entirely different scenario.

I feel I have laid out the scenario as best I can. I have been in this role 4 years after building towards it. Very male dominated and ‘pushing boulder up a hill’ at times! Thanks for the perspectives!

I think that email arguments are embarrassing for all concerned. I don't think that you should be sucked into doing that

I'm confused about the setup - you said senior director from another business unit - so he doesn't cover you/your team? Who was he having the meeting with?

Your pushback was fine in itself but your wording might have been inadvertently passive aggressive, it's hard to tell - when you say here "by all means include yourself" it could be read as having a slightly snarky tone.

His reaction was over the top, obviously, but I'm just trying to put myself in the shoes of someone who's a bit more sensitive to tone maybe. It does smack of insecurity to me - any of the competent, confident directors I work with would have said something like "thanks, fair challenge. I'm going to go ahead with the meeting as planned because of X [could he made up if necessary]. Let's put a 121 in the diary on Monday so we can cover everything properly" etc.

I think there are sometimes good reasons why your dept might need to be discussed without you - often when performance (possibly including yours), budgets, and/or redundancies are concerned. Don't know whether any of these applied here, but it's possible.

I'd be concerned now about the emails being sent about you behind your back, with personal and derogatory comments about your behaviour in the workplace. If you have evidence of this and a friendly HR person I might be having an informal word.

I’m at a similar level and if there was a meeting going ahead about the shortcomings of my team I would absolutely want to be present. I would have framed it to the other director as welcoming the opportunity to be present to find a better way of working in future. Assume positive intent and respond in a fair way so you’ll look the professional one.

This person governs over my team nationally from a compliance perspective which is absolutely fine and he is always included and involved. He has no input into resource, finance or operations and this is a streamlining/processing conversation that has been dragging on for years. He wanted me removed from the conversation that concerned the operational aspects - the day to day workings that need to be updated and refined.

In my corporate environment this would be considered close to a disciplinary action and/or a law suit waiting to happen - if someone said that to me - I would put in a formal complaint

Given his comments after your challenge, he may have wanted to discuss your performance - in a "we need this new process, is Boxhike the right person to deliver it?" way. Not saying he's right to do that, but from what you've said he seems the type to geg in on that kind of thing even though it's not his remit!

Escalate through your line manager, or whoever in your line management is on the same level as this guy.

I feel like I'd need to see the emails in full to 100% decide because it's hard to really know tone etx, but that response is definitely weird. You are very right in wanting to be there and insisting you're included in the conversation, so dont listen to his nonsense. I have worked with some very tricky senior people and have had a few dodgy emails that I've filed away in case required at a grievance or tribunal (I once got a "I don't know who you think you are, but i don't expect to ask twice, do as I say immediately" about something that was my job to challenge/interrogate before approving or declining about a budget i held in my area - wild, i just ignored and said I'd be reviewing as per all requests and that everything required so due dilligence and he called me and legit shouted at me). Sometimes its pure misogyny and senior men cannot cope with a woman challenging them. Sometimes it's an all around sociopath who is nice when they need to be and vile when they need to bully someone to get a result and they don't care which route works. Sometimes it's insecurity and he is worried you'll know more/show him up.
It's up to you what you do about it. You could raise it via your direct manager or look at a grievance for bullying behaviour. Or you could just tuck it away for now, and keep an eye on this man in case it becomes a repeating issue or in case these emails flying aboit reflect badly on you. I'm not sure one snappy and rude email would necessarily get you beyond him being told to be a bit nicer or warned (and then holding a grudge against you forever). It depends on your organisation as to how you'd be perceived for raising it too (it shouldn't be a mark against you but realistically in lots of places I've worked, it'd not be taken kindly). Might be one to quietly flag to your manager or a friendly hr bp/manager just in case but in a "not an issue but fyi" way. He might also have form.

I don’t think it’s bullying behaviour. I do think he’s an arrogant arse.

OP I’m interested to know what you did when he said your team weren’t performing and not following process? As their Director are you aware of that and is it being addressed? Did you suggest to him you should put a call in to take this feedback onboard or defend them or what? Ignoring it seems weird?

I also would not accept being spoken to like he did and would tell him so. Seniority doesn’t mean you get to act like a bell end.

As mentioned, this is fairly typical in male dominated environments. In my experience, I have found being equally bullish gets the other person to respect you. This does not work for everyone as you have to be quite hard nosed and tough.

It’s not something to take to heart, it’s a minor willy wag. It is sadly a feature of corporate life so best to forget it and move on and make sure your team address any areas that need improvement.

I work in a male dominated industry, personally I wouldn’t have an issue with someone senior talking about my work or team without me there. I think the fact you insisted you be there did undermine his authority and if I were him, I’d be pissed off too. But (edited to include this) the fact another male director did similar and didn’t get the same response - changes the entire scenario.

This is not about reasonable/unreasonable but about power and positioning in the company (as almost everything in the workplace ultimately is).

Is the business performance of your team/division not great? Then unless it has or is beginning to turn around under your tenure as leader, you're not in the strongest position and you can expect people to be discussing and even deciding things about it over your head.