Driving through red lights for emergency vehicles

[liketheredsea]

I work near a hospital and a police station, so probably see more of this than most people.

There is a junction that connects the main roads, and it’s probably a daily occurrence now that I see people driving through the lights to let emergency vehicles with their sirens on through.

AIBU to think this is incredibly stupid?! I remember that one of the first things my driving instructor taught me was that you don’t do anything illegal to let an emergency vehicle through. But I see it every day!

It's a sad state of affairs, but often, using common sense to help and get out of their way will just end up with you as another statistic of 'no good deed goes unpunished'. Unfortunately, even when you were making a sensible, safe decision to try to be a good citizen, councils - and authorities in general - are completely devoid of any humanity, and will seize on any opportunity to fine or punish you in accordance with the full force of the law.

At one time, there was a general spirit of overall respect for the authorities, and a keenness to help where possible and treat them as very much a positive soft power with the sole intention of making society better for ordinary, decent, law-abiding people.

Unfortunately, nowadays, every single time somebody is served with a hefty fine for overstaying their parking time by 10 minutes because of unforeseeable circumstances or a minor oversight, or for pulling over perfectly safely but technically illegally to let an ambulance go past... that's one person's goodwill towards authority that is lost for life.

Admittedly this was a long time ago, but I had an ambulance beep at me to get out the way at a red light (there were roadworks and other obstacles (left by vandals in the road, so it was not a normal situation).

I realise you can get fined and obviously I wouldn’t charge out into traffic but if there is nothing coming and I can see there’s nothing coming, I would personally pull forward so they could get past. I’m not saying it’s legal or recommending people do it but I would argue it can definitely be done safely in certain circumstances.

obviously it’s not wise to run people over, but that’s true in all situations. I’m talking about a situation where there are no cars to drive into or people to run over. We often sit at red lights where we can see perfectly well that it’s safe to go, but we don’t because the light is red. In that situation and there was ambulance behind me I’d pull forward through the red light to let them through.

Nail on the head. The old “contract” of respect between normal people and authorities has been lost because of the way that the authorities act, not just automatic fines for minor infringements when councils/police don’t act on bigger things, it goes right through public services, ie automatic £100 for being day late with your tax return, but you can be forced to wait hours for HMRC to answer the phone and then they don’t do what they say they will meaning you have to phone again, or waiting 48 hours on a trolley in an A&E corridor awaiting admission. Respect works both ways. The fact we’re becoming a selfish society is partly driven by the attitude of authority and public services.

You should have reported it as they’re trained not to do that.

I have respect for them. I’m not going to do something illegal for them.

The general public are not trained to decide whether something like driving through a red light or driving extra fast is safe. Emergency service drivers have in depth training and frequent refresher training to help them make those decisions. That's why it's legal for the emergency services to break the law, but not legal for the public to decide to do so. Also, if it was legal you would get nervous drivers doing absolutely stupid moves to get out of the way and reckless drivers using it as an excuse to be bloody dangerous.

Going through a red light is not “using your common sense”. The rules are there exactly so people don’t put themselves or others in danger. If the rules were “you can go through a red light of safe to do so” you’d get people interpreting that in many different ways, as people all risk assess very differently.
This isn’t about civic responsibility, it’s about road safety.

I doubt anyone is going to be prosecuted merely for moving out of the way, but if there were an accident as a result of someone driving through a red light, they would be liable. If people only do it when they are 100% sure it is safe to do so, then it probably doesn't matter. There needs to be a rule in order to determine liability when things go wrong.

During a driving test, I was instructed by the examiner to drive through a red light! There was an accident blocking one lane, and the move was clearly safe and common sense, but he made it very clear that he was taking responsibility for the decision.

I agree with you. I hope none of the “I would never go through a red light, despite it being absolutely clear and I have eyes so I can see that it would be” is every at a red light if my loved ones needed an ambulance and every second counted.

Those saying ‘but we aren’t fit to judge if it’s safe we’re not smart enough to make such a decision’ 🙄 Well here’s one for you…… Have ever heard of part time signals? We have them here on a large roundabout and depending on what time of the day it is, you’ll either wait for the lights or shock horror make the decision yourself, because it’s exactly the same roundabout and conditions and you don’t all of sudden become unable to see if it’s ok to go just because the lights are on, because when the lights aren’t on you have to make that decision yourself anyway!

If the lights have cameras on them or you’re caught by a traffic cop, you’ll be fined, even if it didn’t cause any issues. The liability is clear - unless you’re directed to go through a red light (or bus lane etc) by a uniformed officer, it is illegal and you are fully liable. There’s no grey area.

How about we apply some common sense?

If it’s a busy junction where going through the red light would be dangerous, don’t do it.

If it’s a quiet junction with good visibility where you can do it safely and sensibly, do it.

If you get a ticket for a red light, push back on the circumstances - it’s not an actual defence but you never know. Otherwise, pay the fine and content yourself in the knowledge those couple of seconds / minutes they saved might have had a positive impact on the poor bastard they were driving towards.

But the appeal will fail and up will definitely also end up with points. For some people that could mean their job. Some people may not be able to afford to eat after a fine. As lovely as it sounds to say oh I’ll happily take points and a fine to ensure someone survives it doesn’t work in reality. If you feel strongly enough you could always start a campaign that no one gets points or a fine by going through a red light to make way for an emergency vehicle. But as it stands the law is that you do NOT run a red light no matter what.

If it's a bus lane with a solid line, then that's illegal and you can get done for that. The ambulance should be driving in the bus lane, then if they need to pass a stationary bus, you should stop and give way.

Not quite as simple as you are making out. There is often a car length between the lights and the junction. The lights may just have changed. So sometimes you can safely go through a red light. Obviously doesnt work unless the emergency vehicle is just behind you.

You can go safely through it. But if there’s a camera you’ll still get fined and points.

If you caused a collision by breaking the law though the ambulance wouldn't be going anywhere & even if there was a critically I'll patient on board & there was a minor bump they are legally required to stop.

Also how about the person you could injure especially someone disabled or visually impaired who may be crossing at the red light.

Just don't do it. Read your highway code.

Who crosses the road when an ambulance or police car is approaching? I was taught to wait even if it’s a green man

There are hardly any cameras at red lights in the UK

Obviously I am not talking about pulling out into traffic, or running visually impaired people over 🙄

There are plenty of occasions where we are sat at a red light and we can see perfectly well that there are no cars and no people anywhere near our vehicle. In a situation like this I would personally pull forward to let the ambulance past, even if it meant going through a red light.

I don't need to read the highway code because I am already aware that this is not the permitted / suggested course of action. I can also understand why that is the case because suggesting people drive through red lights 'at their discretion' if an emergency vehicle is behind them would inevitably cause a lot of issues.

Common sense & nuance on MNs?!

Really? I go past 2 sets on my way to work every day in Hertfordshire/North London area. Maybe I just live in an unusual area. I used to have one set right by my house in Greenford West London as well. I could probably name quite a few others if I really thought about it.

Yes! Get in the queue of mostly Mumsnetters lining up to Report Someone For Doing A Very Bad Thing (in the tiny and dysfunctional mind of the Reporter). The more reporting the better and you get an extra five minutes on your life expectancy for every successful report.
Or you could just stop living for the moment when you can next Report Someone to Someone Else for Doing Something.

I remember my sister getting a ticket for moving into a bus lane to allow an ambulance to pass in Brighton. To me that is common sense to move out the way of safe to do so but the rules don’t change with emergency vehicles