State pension

[blondeboobshell]

There’s concerns the state pension won’t be an option in years to come or will be means tested. Iyo what age group need to start not counting on getting the state pension, people in there 50’s? 40’s? 30’s? Or younger?

So who are the rich?

Don’t forget you also have plenty of people who get no where near what they paid in back for their NI as well. My father worked from age 15. Died at 66 (managed to get one whole year of state pension! Lucky him!) My mother who did get state pension from 60 died at 67. But she still worked part time as well until 65 so was still paying tax etc. My aunt retired at 60 then died at 63. My uncle retired with a great work pension at 55. Started claiming state pension at 65, died that same year. Even my nan who was born in 1919 was working as a cleaner twice a week until she was 71 when she died. Her husband, my grandad, was dead before I was even born. He was 56 when he died. In my world I just don’t recognise this idea that all older people are living long healthy lives until they are mid 90s. Not one of my biological family members in the past 2-3 generations have lived past 75 (most of them under 70). I don’t expect to either.

Early 50s… it’ll be means tested in the next 5 years, but with a long transition period so people can adjust

@Mzaaazthe vast majority aren’t paying anything near what they get back in state pension & free healthcare even if they don’t live long.

Life expectancy might have increased but healthy life really hasn't.

People are living longer with better health care but that doesn't mean they are fit to work, esp not in physically demanding jobs or mentally stressful jobs.

You need to earn 55k to pay the equivalent tax for one year of state pension.

Yes but most people live past that now, even if they don’t have a decent quality of life. For the thousands/millions that do it’s a huge black hole the government have to fill. National insurance contributions do not cover it.

I'm late 50s and don't expect to get it. I think it'll be means tested by the time I'm 67. People may receive a percentage to top their income up if their private pension doesn't provide enough to live on.

When I was in my 20s and starting work after University I assumed the SP would be gone before I retired
I planned my private pension on that basis
So now I’m 60 it looks like I will be getting an extra 10k Pa when I retire
Eventually I think the SP will be means tested

The 'rich', whoever they are can choose not to claim it, I wonder how many don't, I wonder if Lineker will claim his, he is due his next year as he is the same age as DH

They’re going to have to move away from the PAYG nature of it, that’s for sure, because the current model is unaffordable. But they’d have to do it soon to actually make it workable for the point of time in the future it would need to be operational. And at some point, between now and then, rather than means testing they might need to consider a claw back (similar to how they did with Child Benefit) based on Income Tax take (they’d have to include Dividend Tax in that too), that wouldn’t be onerous as they have those figures already through SA and the tax system.
But no one in modern politics has the political will to do so (or the power base tbh).

I don't think they'll means test it - it;s an expensive option. Far more likely to cut the cost of it is for them firstly to get rid of the triple lock and then to continue as they are doing by raising the age at which you can claim it.

And have the guts to do what they originally wanted and get rid of the Winter Fuel Payment for all but those on Pension credit.

No the Triple lock has to go. It is already unaffordable and demographic changes are only going to make it get worse.

60% of income tax is paid by the top 10% of earners. There is a limit to how much you can tax people before they cut their hours etc.

People will have to properly save into employment or private pensions as they cannot rely on the state pension to fund their retirement.

It’s easy to means test it, people can do self assessment tax returns.

So you have a view on this @blondeboobshell ?

Agreed my dad who does get his state pension said the other day he’s only getting what he paid in. He’s 85 he’s been getting 13k (ish) for twenty years!! I said you realise that’s a quarter of a million pounds you have had??!!

I think there has to be a 10-year notice for any major changes to the state pension (like means testing or removing it) so I think (would hope!) anyone in the 50s now would,be reasonably safe, but younger groups may see bigger changes.

Who knows though....!

I think they are, actually - the national insurance fund is usually in surplus.

I think 40s. We’re late 30s and not expecting to get it.

Workplace pensions became compulsory for all in 2018, so presumably people now in their 20s would be the ones who potentially may not receive a state pension, however, why should anyone be expected to contribute to it through taxation if they won’t receive it

No evidence just discussion

I’m 55 and retired and not factored in any SP to my calculations. If I get it when I’m 67/68 that’s a bonus.

So you can have those who has never worked or maybe moved here from elsewhere aged 65 so never paid any NI contributions whatsoever so are on pension credit of a maximum of £238 a week (but also includes things like free dentistry - if they can get it obviously, housing benefit, winter fuel allowance, council tax reduction or removal etc etc). Someone who has worked all their life but was unable to have a workplace pension or private pension (including those who were very low paid or carers etc who had their NI paid but couldn’t work) will get £241 a week but will receive none of the additional benefits and now the winter fuel allowance removed? I’m sure the £3 a week those on state pension get will pay for all that they “lose” due to the fact they worked.

We have a bolus of older people vs younger earning at the mo, but then it settles back out and balances. At the population generational level, within a few decades.

So that makes decent state pensions affordable long term- change that or drop the triple lock and it’s young adults who will suffer. And if anyone thinks it’s a matter of only pausing the triple lock, they are an idiot. Once it’s gone, no Gvt will give it back- until it’s the scandal of old people having to choose eat or heat and then dying malnourished in unheated homes. With cost of living though, I wouldn’t rule that out.

NHS is different, demand grows and will never not outstrip affordability. New treatments, horrifically expensive monoclonal antibody treatments keep people alive who previously would not survive. Younger patients are saved, which is great, but have a lifetime of expensive care and social care needs. Younger adults and SEND are the fastest growing need in social care too. Innovation will continue always, great more and more of us are saved but there are costs and long term implications not only for NHS but then the benefits bill. Remember Javid said he could see a day where the UK was a state whos domestic product was to service the NHS. Will AI make enough savings? Maybe, but I am not optimistic.

This comes back to growth and productivity. Employment. Not the benefits culture. Brexit was still the greatest act of self harm this country ever made.

They’ve raised the pension age to 67/68 but life expectancy is no longer rising. So from now onwards most people will get the state pension for about 16yrs