To think Doreen Lawrence's position in the House of Lords is linked to wider issues with it?

[Jane379]

I've been following the ANL vs Sussex case and I've been very disappointed with the way Doreen Lawrence behaved. I started off feeling sympathetic to her and thinking she had been tricked but as it became clearer that Harry & other others' case didn't have a leg to stand on, she still supported it. There seem to have been other worrying things she's done : eg. Her claim that the Grenfell tower firefighters were racist towards victims, which doesn't seem to be supported by evidence.
But imo this is just emblematic of bigger issues with the House of Lords. How can a Lord behaving inappropriately be held to account unless those in power do so? And what qualifies someone to be a Lord? Michelle Mone's appointment, for instance, wasn't particularly beneficial for the nation...At least they've finally stopped hereditary peers, but that's the tip of the iceberg imo.

Huh?

lords cannot be held to account.

except in the way that any private citizen can.

There shouldn't even be a House of Lords. So nobody there deserves to be there. Imho.

I'm not sure about that. Systems like the US have 2 elected chambers and it can often lead to deadlock. I think the Lords is a good idea in some ways, but I don't like the way it is at the moment.

Sorry, to be clearer: if Doreen Lawrence were an MP, her constituents would be able to assess whether her behaviour at the ANL trial was a sticking point for them or not. Since she's a Lords Baroness, that option isn't available, and therefore it's harder for her or other questionable Lords to be removed.

Someone on another thread said this about DL : 'I think DL is becoming a classic example of how the complete veneration of "lived experience" is a misstep in addressing systemic injustices.
Because having lived experience doesn't make you smart or compassionate or objective or fair. Not by itself.'

I don't think she was appointed just due to that, though. She had campaigned. More widely, though, what should qualify someone to scrutinise legislation on all sorts of issues? I know Ruth Rendell was in the Lords, for one- I love her books but I'm not sure how much preparation that necessarily gave for the Lords.She was apparently a huge Labour donor which probably explains it (I will say she did at least one good thing while in by supporting the FGM Act)

I agree OP.

Doreen Lawrence went through a truly awful
event, the murder of her son, made infinitely worse by the failure of the police.

She rightly deserves credit for her determination to expose incompetence, corruption and institutional racism within the Met Police.

However, does that necessarily qualify her to sit in judgement on other areas?

I think her catastrophic personal experience has affected her so completely that she is unable to come to a balanced view.

The ANL case reflects very badly upon her.

As regards Michelle Mone, her appointment was related to the Scottish referendum.

David Cameron saw her as a useful supporter for maintaining the union and failed to do his due diligence and see that her apparent business success was mostly smoke and mirrors and that she had a history of mistreating staff.
Neither of these women should have been appointed to the House of Lords.

'However, does that necessarily qualify her to sit in judgement on other areas?
I think her catastrophic personal experience has affected her so completely that she is unable to come to a balanced view.' - thank you, this is exactly it. She went through something unimaginable and did brave work, but this isn't a reason for her to be put in positions she is not adequate for..
Her ex husband Neville didn't support the ANL inquiry, if only she had taken the same position.

Re Mone- I didn't know that about Scotland, very interesting. Cameron seems naive at best. As I said above, I believe in the Lords, but they need to stop being used as a forum for patronage of unsuitable people.

Her ex husband acted with far more dignity. I’m not saying for one second she owes the killers her forgiveness and I do think it’s honourable when a parent finds it within them to forgive as Stephen’s dad did. I think it brought him a lot of peace Doreen has sadly never found.

I totally disagree with this. Why should she forgive the unforgivable? Would you say that about Rihannon White's mother?
I also disagree with people on this thread who are equating Doreen Lawrence with Michelle Mone. One was misguided, the other is an out and out crook who should be behind bars.

@Jane379 I agree but the PM of the day does not personally check these people. There are checks but the bar is very low.

We do have populist appointments and people appointed beyond their ability. What do some of them actually do? Do they even attend or do anything? Sugar, Brady, Mone, are the latest in a long line. Harold Wilson appointed the chairman of his raincoat supplier to the Lords and just about every SPAD gets in! Some of the Lords who were hereditary were probably better! At least most were not grifters. Although Lord Lucan….

It’s meant to be a checks and balances chamber. So making amendments, having an informed debate and not being political (?) are its strengths but few Appointees are removed. Were some in the expenses scandal? Cannot remember.

However they do appoint the wrong people but she was appointed for her anti race campaigning but most of the investigate work hunting out the killers of her son was down to ANL! Who she then wanted £630,000 from to stop her going to court against them! They didn’t do what she alleged and she’s clearly a grabby woman. No, she’s not the calibre we need. Others are better but they don’t have a victim background as she does.

@Pollqueen Does anyone think she’s got enough fur that? Lots think she will be subbed by Elton John. She probably needs to lie low for a while!

I started off feeling sympathetic to her and thinking she had been tricked.

@Jane379 Tricked by whom?

Of course she doesn't have enough to pay but she should be ashamed. Say what you want about the DM but if it hadn't been for them, Stephen's murderers would never have faced justice. They never gave up and Dacre put his liberty on the line and she betrayed him, so deserves everything coming to her

ANL?

Associated Newspapers Limited

I thought Prince Harry was paying her costs? So she has nothing to lose.

On what basis did she assess that the London Fire Service was racist in their response to Grenfell?

This is a moving piece responding to Lawrence’s vile accusations about Grenfell, written by Dave Gillian. He wrote it for the firefighters who risked their lives that night and morning.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/fire-doesnt-discriminate-and-neither-do-we

At first Doreen Lawrence refused to apologise and then did a grudging social media message, a tweet I think it was, that just sounded pompous and brittle.

Yes that was truly horrible...I don't know why on earth she said that.

Maybe not tricked exactly but given a misleading impression about the strength if the case by Harry, Sherborne et al..

But even if she had, that wouldn't excuse going along with it and criticising the judge even after it became clear their was zero case. I don't understand why she treated the Mail like this either when they were excellent at getting Stephen Lawrence justice.

And then there’s this story of DL moving Stephen Lawrence’s body without telling his dad Neville.

Dr Neville Lawrence said he was not informed of the decision to exhume his son’s body, and only found out after he was shown a video of the damage done to his son’s grave by his body being moved.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/doreen-lawrence-stephen-lawrence-jamaica-caribbean-eltham-b2590269.html

Lawrence's personal attack against the judge in the ANL case after the judgment went against her was an utter disgrace. It was a direct strike against the rule of law, something the H of L had issued a report upon in 2025, arguing that the media and legislators should refrain from targeting individual judges and undermining the judiciary. Lawrence obviously didn't bother to read the report that came out of her own chamber.

In terms of ‘wider issues’ in the Lords, yes it’s stuffed with arrogant policians whose parties supposedly don’t support an unelected upper chamber! Some of the Lib Dems are among the worst. There’s a particular group that’s just a bunch of tossers, raging against the dying of the light by screaming for self-ID and pink hair for all.

There are still some hereditary peers who were converted to life peers. Many align with parties and become ‘spokespersons’ on their hobby horse subjects. The money’s not too bad either, per diem, with various expenses added on. DL maxes her attendance, from what I’ve seen, as do many others.

(ETA: DL is a Labour appointee.)

“Non-crime hate incident” recording was brought in as a genuine attempt to document racism after the McPherson Inquiry into Steven’s death. Instead, it has been used as a weapon against people expressing unacceptable views, like gender critical views. People like Helen Joyce and Graham Linehan have had NCHIs recorded against their name without their knowledge. After pushback, police constabularies dropped this tool altogether, realising its original purpose has been lost.

And through all this time, while a tool put in place to help address the inherent racism that contributed to the murder of her son was being bastardised by men seeking to punish people for expressing Wrongthink, Doreen Lawrence said exactly…nothing. Not a peep. She never pushed back on this weaponisation, never supported women, never sought to protect the process for its original intention or propose an alternative that would allow racism to be documented as intended. All she did was complain when the vote to abolish NCHI passed earlier this year.

So if the question is “is Doreen Lawrence ineffectual?” the answer is yes.

Is she the only ineffectual member of the House of Lords? God no.

Is the House of Lords needed? Absolutely, single house governments are not a good idea generally.

Reminds me of Winnie Mandela.
Unqualified for the role.