AIBU to think assistance dogs should be formally registered and assessed?

[sunshine244]

Should there be a register of trained and assessed assistance dogs?

I seem to come across a lot of dogs wearing assistance dog jackets these days. One barked and lunged at me in a local shop recently. I mentioned to staff, as schools were about to come out and I was worried there might be issues, but they said they can't do anything if a person claims their dog is an assistance dog.

Theres also a small charity in the Outer Hebrides being sued because they refused entry to someone whose assistance dog had caused issues.

Currently there is no regulation at all and it seems anyone can call their dog an assistance dog. This is likely damaging for people who have real need for one. Aibu to think it needs more control?

Sadly I agree with you. I say sadly because many people may benefit from an assistance dog who has had no formal training, and as another poster said, it takes a lot of time and money to train assistance dogs,

The problem is though, that self-trained assistance dogs don't have to have as much training as a good pet dog has. That's literally the problem. It's not being ableist or cruel. It's a fact that someone can train a dog to do one task, literally one task, and if that task happens to be one that assists you with something you can't do or find hard due to a disability or medical condition, he or she can be called an assistance dog. He or she doesn't even have to be trained as much as a well trained pet with everything else. (Not doing their business or the floor. Not jumping at people. Not begging for food. Not being wild or aggressive with other dogs.) There's simply no way of ensuring that self trained assistance dogs won't be a menace or a danger.

That's why the rule should be clear either your dog is trained through a registered organisation for assistance dogs, or it's a pet, and it can't go places that don't allow pets, and can't do things pets can't do. Sadly there is no other way to keep people and actual assitance dogs safe from untrained dogs.

So when I had my guide dog. I had to carry my registered guide dog card with me. And you do get asked for it.

Anyone can claim a pet is an assistance dog with zero proof. And many of them are “emotional support dogs” but if you need emotional support coming to Tesco please just stay home and order.

I’m not sure I entirely agree tbh. I volunteer at a historic house that strictly doesn’t allow dogs except for assistance dogs normally. An autistic visitor came round once with a very small dog which she carried in her arms. You barely noticed it was there, it was quiet, there was no danger at all of it chasing the peacocks/weeing on the antique upholstery, and all the other reasons dogs aren’t normally allowed. The dog enabled her to come out and have an experience she wouldn’t otherwise have been able to access.
For me the question isn’t whether a particular type of need is valid, it’s whether the animal is going to cause harm or behaves in such a way that it doesn’t detract from anyone else’s experience.

Are these qualified guidance dogs?

I have a family member who looks after puppies for guides dogs. It isn't her dog to train them as such, but to socialise and expose them. You'll see them in local shops, public transport, pubs etc. Probably being an antisocial terror. That's the beginning of the process.

I'm sure some people do abuse the system but it's not the norm

That’s great and all but it doesn’t explain why she’d need to take the dog into places that are no dogs except proper assistance dogs

Yanbu, I have a fully trained assistance dog (from a charity) and I’ve seen a sharp increase in terribly trained “support dogs” often lunging at mine, it’s ridiculous.

I did look into autism assistance dogs a few years ago for my child. They can be acceptable under the legislation if they are trained for two tasks. That can be things like providing deep pressure or alerting for meltdowns. Can't just be for emotional support.

I decided against it as I actually worried it would lead to dependency and possibly make anxiety worse to take a dog everywhere. We got a normal pet dog instead who has been great for informal support.

But OPs point is that any dog can have access to non-dog spaces as there is currently no way for the management of the establishments to verify.
i could take my Labrador into anywhere I liked and say I was diabetic and she was professionally/formally trained to detect low blood sugar. How would they disprove it?

Well what about autistic people who are terrified of dogs? Or other disabled people especially kids? Or even NTs who are.

There needs to be consideration for the fact it impacts others emotional and mental wellbeing too.

When it was purely service dogs allowed in places you’d rarely see them as there are not so many, so it was possible to avoid dogs in indoor public spaces. Now with all the “emotional support dogs” which to me is just a pet- they’re everywhere.

And this particular dog is just one example. Yes it’s a small quiet dog carried in arms but the reality is if you open the door to emotional support dog due to that one type of dog, you’ll have to allow others that are not so well behaved too or small and carried in arms.

And I think the Op made a good point about the issue of ESD cultivating emotional dependency. I think more people need to think about this. Before a pet was a nice thing someone could come home to and snuggle up to, and get some comfort from at home. However now people are turning that into something else where they must take the dog everywhere with them or they and/or the dog will become anxious. It’s not a good idea in the long term.

I decided against it as I actually worried it would lead to dependency and possibly make anxiety worse to take a dog everywhere. We got a normal pet dog instead who has been great for informal support.

This case illustrates perfectly the pitfalls of “emotional support dog” owners thinking their dog should be able to access anywhere. It’s entitlement of the highest order.

https://www.stornowaygazette.co.uk/business/bernera-groups-face-financial-ruin-from-legal-costs-

‘A second Bernera community organisation is facing financial ruin due to the activities of Claire Kellerman, an American woman who has been involved in multiple altercations with businesses on Lewis, mainly over rights of access for her dog.”

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/daughter-70s-hollywood-icon-drives-37581997.amp

The daughter of a 70s Hollywood icon has provoked anger by allegedly abusing Scotland's legal aid funding to drive two Western Isles community groups to near bankruptcy. Claire Kellerman has taken legal action against two Bernera community organisations because a cafe refused to admit her dog.

I'm a bit sceptical of this one to be honest. How does the dog know?

But there isn’t any legislation at the moment.

At the time my son had huge anxiety everywhere including school. An assistance dog would undeniably have been good for him in many ways at that point. But thankfully he's doing better now with more support in place at school. But a dog isn't something you can use for a year or two then drop. If he'd got dependent on a dog I don't think he'd be doing so well now. Instead he gets to play with and stroke our pet when he's home from school which is the best of both worlds.

Yes there is - an assistance dog must be well behaved and must be trained to do at least two tasks related to medical or disability need.

But there is no requirement to prove this, no register, no min training requirements, no need to even use an identifying harness. This is because under the equality act you can't force someone to disclose their disability or even that they have a disability. Making a dog be identifiable as an assistance dog means someone is also being made to disclose their disability. Its a quirk in the law which I think needs fixed.

It's getting to be that way with the number of badly behaved animals (looking at the owners of the dog who left a huge dump in Dobbies having just walked in and who also expected the staff to deal with).

It'll also put the skids under the idiocy that's going on in the Western Isles. Yet another example of sheer entitlement spoiling it for people who have a true need.

The only type of dogs that should be allowed in dog free zones should be guide dogs - blind people need them. I know some people who have seizures and are deaf and they don’t have a guide dog. However, I’d rather people with those disabilities to have guide dogs than anxious people with ‘emotional support dogs’ (pets). Someone mentioned ESD for food allergies - why? I have severe allergies and I also have friends who have allergies. Just read the labels or speak to the chef.

I guess you could say that the dog is trained to do xyz, not that the person suffers from condition xyz. So in theory, the dog could be with a ‘well’ person, and still be classed as an assistance dog for the purposes of the law. That would therefore cover training also (with an accredited charity/company).

I guess accredited companies would have to get their dog up to an approved minimum standard and have a proper, structured, training process in place.

The difficulty is if there’s an allowance for people to self-train their dogs, as that leaves the floodgates open, unless they then have to go through a series of tests to be approved.

The assistance dog needs to be specific to one person so by implication the handler must have a disability/medical condition.

I can also understand why people home train because the autism dog schemes I looked at were thousands and also long waiting lists.

But something needs to be done as it isn't sustainable without a proper system..

Smell. Exactly the same way that dogs are trained to sniff out drugs.

recently I saw a girl with a tiny puppy that had a harness saying it was a therapy dog. I asked her how old the pup was and she said 10 weeks. I gave it a stroke- it was a very cute little cockerpoo but it was absolutely no way trained to be anything at ten weeks old. But it was there being carried everywhere by her in the shops and cafes because it had its harness on and no one wanted to say anything. I do feel a bit sorry for those who are allergic to dogs or scared of dogs and they’re everywhere now. I personally love dogs but I don’t feel like I should be able to take my own dog everywhere I go.

To get a disability-related adjustment at work or school, the person has to reveal their disability. At least to the management agreeing and applying that adjustment. It is nobody else’s business. How is this any different?

Visually-impaired people have to declare their disability every time they step out of their home with a guide dog. I wonder what they think about this proliferation of ‘support animals’ and the ‘privacy’ issue?

I have an assistance cat.

We have a long thread going about this case on Scotsnet.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/scotsnet/5571706-the-bernera-cafedoglegal-aid-saga-wtf?page=1

Executive summary: American woman moves to tiny island with 250 people, has a support dog which is "synergystically aligned" to support her with her undisclosed disabilities, and is suing a tiny community charity cafe for £10k because they would not let her in with her animal which had previously been aggressive. Her legal fees are being paid by legal aid through a charity which supports ethnic minorites. The charity faces closure if she wins.

I so agree.
The business in Scotland has absolutely incensed me. And the woman responisble is even getting Legal Aid. An American, vexatious litigant, getting British tax payers' money!
There are as I understand it 'private' registers such as Assistance Dog Registry UK.
But we definitely need an official set-up, too many folk are jumping on the bandwagon.