Dog crates are cruel

[Poppycorn123]

In light of this terrible story I think they should be banned. Yes people will say they are good for training etc but I think in general they are being overused. A family member would put the dog in it while they have guests. Dog is not vicious or anything, just gets a bit excited as a young dog should. I think this is awful.

Sounds like an anxiety issue to me - have you done anything about it?

If you can't supervise a puppy that young for the whole day, you really shouldn't have one.

How do cats manage?

Oh give over, will you.

She had to drive her mother to hospital. I’ve left puppies twice a day for the school run, from when they first came home, and for a couple of hours a day when I’ve had a puppy but still had an older dog to walk.

You can’t take puppies everywhere. I still had to go to the supermarket.

Thats when crates/pens come into play to make sure they are safe from harm.

Most of them scream bloody murder, from what I’ve seen! Poor things.

I didn't read the story but my dog loves her crate. She will often take herself there throughout the day and at night, puts herself to bed there- the door is never closed but she chooses to sleep there. We cover the top/sides with a blanket and its like a dark, safe den which she loves so no, i dont think its remotely cruel

My neighbours 2 labradors have crates and she does the covering with blankets thing. They seem to like sleeping in there. The doors are open. They can go in and out as they please. It's a tidy place for them to sleep so nobody trips over them. Massive kitchen though. Prob wouldn't fit in most.

Our dog loved her crate. We put a blanket over it so it was dark, and she used to take herself in there. It was just another place to sleep.

I think we actually shut her in and closed the door probably about half a dozen times if that, mainly for her own safety - when we were having furniture delivered and the door was going to be open for a long time, that type of thing, or when the gas meter man needed to crawl into the under stairs cupboard and didn't need a dogs nose up his bum.

It was a useful tool.

A neglected dog will suffer, crate or no crate.

Cats don't typically chew, that's the main difference. There's little chance of your average cat biting into an electric cable while your back is turned.

Yes! He’s fine. It’s massive and he can stretch and move if he wants. Mostly tho he curls up very small in the corner. He’s a spaniel so not a titchy dog.

I had never used crates with any dogs before and didn't really approve of them but then I got a working cocker spaniel puppy and I soon changed my tune.

The crate was the only way he could truly rest as he was so wired he was just on the go constantly and had very poor sleep. This exacerbated quite severe guarding behaviours unfortunately - when he was was rested these diminished significantly. So yes it was a safety question for us, and it also became his safe space that he took himself away too.

If he wasn't in the crate for eg. when tradespeople / children were round he was constantly on edge, anxious and trying to work out what he should be doing - he just couldn't switch off and it absolutely exhausted him. In his covered crate he immediately relaxed and accepted he didn't need to do anything and could sleep. Sure I could put him in another room but he would try to bite through the door/ walls and would howl constantly, and he showed no such agitation in his crate.

Not needed so much now that he is older.

Kittens do. Kitten proofing a room is a bloody nightmare.

Out of interest, are playpens for children still a thing? It's the same sort of principle.

So only unemployed people are allowed pets? Unemployed people who never have to leave the house even to go shopping? Got it.

I'll be sure to apologise to my very much loved and looked after 8 year old dog that I was cruel not refusing to leave my home for the first year of her life.

ETA - I see you're specifically talking about 4 months, but my point still stands if you're expecting people to be there watching a puppy for 24 hours a day for a month.

Or every time when guests are over - talk about how to induce anxiety in a dog every time people are around

That just isnt true though. It won't induce anxiety in the slightest, although I agree it isn't necessarily best practice, just not for the reason you state.

Key difference is that your rats live in their enclosure. A dog does not.

Common sense lacking these days..

My kittens never did chew, fortunately! Scratch, yes, destroy the curtains by running up and down them, absolutely, but they seemed to know what they could safely do.

I didn't really care if they (or my dog) damaged the furnishings, as long as they didn't hurt themselves, but my dog when he was a pup he didn't have the same sense of self-preservation as my cats, and had to be trained not to chew things.

My husband didn't work so was around for our pup all day but it's unrealistic never to leave a puppy unattended for short periods, e.g, while having a shower, and, indeed, they need to learn gradually to be left alone if you don't want to end up with a dog that has separation anxiety. So we used the crate for short periods during the day, and overnight.

By the time our doggie was 'grown up' he was happy to be left for a morning or afternoon when needed, because we'd built up to it, starting with literally a few minutes, and he had the freedom of the house by then because we'd been able to train him to know what he should and shouldn't play with.

I don't think they should be banned. When used appropriately with the correct training and responsible ownership they are fine.

In many cases it is good to crate train a dog, it allows safe transportation in vehicles, it isn't distressing for them if they require a stay at the vets, they offer a place of security for the dog to sleep/ withdraw from humans/ other animals (when used correctly). It gives a safe space for the dog to be in if they are frightened/ destructive when been left alone for periods of time by their owner. They can be used when the dog is taken on holiday.

The key is correct usage and training. This is very much an owner education issue. Many dog owners do not (through lack of education rather than cruelty) crate train correctly or use crates inappropriately or for inappropriate lengths of time.

Crates are not inherently cruel, it is the inappropriate usage of them that is cruel. In the story it is poor ownership that led to the suffering and deaths of the dogs.

Muzzles have a similar bad reputation but when used appropriately and with the correct training in place and with good owner education and responsibility they are a vital safeguard for many dogs and allow the dog more freedom than they could have if they were not muzzled.

I say it every time there is an incident with a dog. A sizeable proportion of dog owners are unintentionally poor and irresponsible owners. It is not because they mean to be or are purposely intending to be poor owners. There is a real lack of high quality, thorough good dog ownership education. Puppy classes do not cover it and extra training classes can cost a lot of money. A lot of people only do the puppy classes. It takes more than a course of puppy classes to have a properly trained dog. It takes time, commitment and dedication. A properly trained dog does not pull at lead, they walk at close health until instructed otherwise by their owner. A properly trained dog has excellent recall that is almost 99% guaranteed, they will return to their owner when called regardless of what distraction is occuring. A properly trained dog does not react or approach to any human or animal unless explicitly instructed to by their owner. They do not sit at tables/ jump up at tables/ beg for scraps. They do not bark unless alerted to danger or explicitly instructed to by their owner. How many properly trained dogs do people encounter? I can count on 1 hand how many I've seen in the last 10 years.

I agree. We did one night with our dog in a crate downstairs and never again. She can snuggle on whichever human bed she chooses or her own bed in our room but crate just no.

Ditto with a working lab. He loved visiting workmen, he carried their tools around, he took them up the garden. He never stopped.

He didn't suffer anxiety or anything. He just wanted to be part of everything. He also chewed through some electric wires. Then wanted to help the electrician repair them.

He loves his crate. He now sleeps with the door open. I want to get rid of it because it is so big. But he loves it too much.

She’s 16 now, living her life out in glorious contentment. This was 15.5 years ago. It wasn’t anxiety, it was the fact that she was a 6 month old puppy.

Please get in touch with Dogs Trust and rspca and give them a lecture. They obviously know nothing about dogs.

They both recommend crate training and if you visit dogs trust rehoming centres, most dogs have a covered crate which they can go into. It's their safe place

Most unemployed people can’t afford decent pet food/spaying/immunisations/insurance etc etc.

Oh and she still takes herself off into her crate for a snooze!

There is a huge difference between animal
cruelty in whatever form it takes and using a crate as a bed/den for a dog who likes it. We used a crate for our puppy in a quiet space and he went in there on his own when he wanted quiet or peace from us. We stopped closing the door once he was toilet trained so pretty early on. We only just got rid of it after a few years because he also had a bed and was taking up too much floor space. But he still went in there for naps.

so no, crates are not cruel, people are cruel.

DDog hss various places in the house where she goes for peace and quiet. Her favourite is under my bed, where she has a comfy cushion. There's no need to provide a cage for a dog to have a quiet little den when they want one. Just respect it when they choose to tuck themselves away.