To not refund this £2k

[RefundOrNot]

NC for this as it’s identifying.

I organise women’s retreats. The next one is abroad at the end of September (Mediterranean).

The retreat sold out 6 months ago and I had a big waiting list with lots of women contacting me saying to get in touch if there is a cancellation.

One of the guests has cancelled - she had one of the biggest private en-suite rooms so her place was expensive (£2k). Her reason for cancelling isn’t an emergency and something she will have known about for a while.

I thought I’d be able to fill her place quite easily and have contacted everyone on the waiting list but nobody can make it now.

The cancellation policy is no refund within a month of the retreat. She cancelled 29 days before the retreat starts.

She wants a full refund but I am going to really struggle to fill her place at such short notice.

The retreat is organised by a not-for-profit women’s org. Everything is priced to break even so the org will have to make a £2k loss. It is a tiny org funded by donations and run by volunteers so this is a huge loss for the org.

On the other hand I feel dreadful not offering a refund.

AIBU not to refund it?

Just giving this a little bump. Would love the discounted place to go to a Mumsnetter.

No it's not fair. You accept that a month isn't clear so she could have taken it one way and thought she was covered. It's not her fault you were not clear

“RefundOrNot · Today 16:16
Cosyblankets · Today 16:10
Surely if you've updated terms then you agree that "a month" is ambiguous and therefore she should be refunded
Show quote history
I do agree - which is why I started the AIBU. I think a 50% refund is the fairest solution if I can sell the room at a 50% discount 🤞”

@RefundOrNot - month is not ambiguous. I’m a dispute resolution lawyer and familiar with the debates. If this went to court, month would be construed as calendar month. No harm in stating number of days (though i think 28 days is preferable to 30 as it makes for clearer counting).

Has she actually said that though?

Ime people cancel knowing full well they’re out of time but hope you’ll give them a refund anyway.

I started on the thread thinking there may be some ambiguity given the wording but the lawyers are clear that the legal definition is watertight in U.K. law.

It would be for the client to ask for clarification if need be - she booked this nearly a year ago. She’s had plenty of time to cancel if she thought she couldn’t make it.

What she’s done is sit on something she wasn’t committed and then cancel when it’s highly unlikely to get rebooked. That’s unfair on the organisation and unfair on another client who might have liked the slot with more notice.

If those are your terms then its all legal. You have tried to fill it and cant so its tough luck.

Then why update the terms if they're so clear and watertight?

Pretty sure references to "month" in contracts are now defined by statute (Law of Property Act) as being a calendar month unless context requires a different interpretation.

I believe that courts have ruled that it's date to date (so something that needs to be done a month before September 2nd would need to be done by or on August 2nd) but not as sure of that.

Yes, even to a layperson, that period of time couldn't reasonably be construed in any way as constituting a month.

By dotting the Is and crossing the Ts, it just protects you even more securely from people who are trying it on and closes any loopholes that they could conceivably imagine to try to catch you out.

Just like when manufacturers of peanuts started adding warnings to the packets that 'this product contains nuts' - no half-reasonable person could ever have doubted or quibbled that obvious fact, but they wanted to protect themselves from shameless CF chancers who were determined to invent an excuse (however tenuous) to take them to the cleaners.

For clarity.

It looks like a beautiful retreat, I hope you manage to sell the place so someone else can benefit.

Stick to the contractual refund terms and conditions of booking. If you enter the realms of sympathetic partial refunds and/or goodwill gestures you could find yourself in the small claims court.

It's a business transaction after all. You could inform her that she can try resell her place if she can find an eligible participant to attend in her place, assuming that's within the booking terms and conditions .

It’s trying to balance the business head with the compassionate, human side too. It is such a lot of money for her to lose and the stress of not getting a refund will do the exact opposite of what a healing retreat is supposed to do.

It is very late in the day and very annoying but when women are dealing with trauma and mental health issues sometimes these things happen.

To be fair, though, she can't be hard up if she was willing and able to pay £2K in the first place. Even if she adjudged attending the event as absolutely essential for her mental/physical/other wellbeing, she still went out of her way to select the most expensive option in doing so.

Just like a great many people cannot possibly do their jobs without the use of a reliable car... but it doesn't have to be a Lamborghini!

All of that might be true, or she might have sacrificed numerous other things to save the money, and having the en suite/single
room option might have felt necessary for her to relax. I don’t think we can assume that she’s minted and it feels right that OP wants to live her values and not create stress on someone who obviously wanted to attend the retreat in the first place.

No booking yet 😞

The owner of the venue (who is totally brilliant) has done a couple of Instagram videos so keeping everything crossed that the message finds its way to the right woman 🤞

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DZzXRBSMwm7/?igsi=MTBiZjRyOG9wa3Btdw==

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Dc3HDIYOzUq/?igsi=YnIyeG5vd2hoMzl1

We had another cancellation back in June for a totally legitimate reason and the space went almost instantly. Initial booker got a full refund and there was no drama. Such a different story when the retreat is only 3 weeks away.

That’s such a shame but I think you’ve gone above and beyond to try and refund some money, if it doesn’t work out, at least you can sleep easy knowing you’ve tried.

Goodness you sound absolutely lovely - and I can totally understand why you feel conflicted.

You are right, though, that the short notice is the issue with filling the spot as so many women have carer commitments and getting cover at short notice is really hard. I’d love to take up the space, but have 2 dogs and an autie DD in a MH crisis home from uni so cannot find anyone to step in for me … but I love the look of the retreats and keen to explore a future one.

Keeping fingers and toes crossed that you can fill the room. Will post the holiday on my FB page just in case anyone is around - my Director of Studies at Uni does lots of project with victims of DV so hopefully she will be able to share with people she works with.

Aw thank you! You sound absolutely lovely too and I’m sorry you have so much going on at the moment. We are doing the same retreat in May 2027 and there are still spaces.

Thank you so much for sharing the info. Here is the Sisters Heal website again https://sistersheal.co.uk/

You could argue that "a month" is 4 weeks, i.e. 28 days. No bueno to be so vague in a business agreement.

We’re not in a leap year though so it doesn’t really count

You could try to argue that, but unless it's one of 3 out of 48 months, you would have no logic to doing so, and would thus be unsuccessful.

A lot of people seem to be of the bizarre conviction that 4 weeks and a month are always the exact same amount of time, but the theory doesn't bear up to the slightest scrutiny. Just because of the example of 3 out of every 4 Februarys... that would be like insisting that, because there's a Thursday in every week, that must mean that every day is a Thursday!

Just want to say Sisters Heal has received a few donations today - I think as a result of this thread! So if you send over a donation please know it has been received with huge gratitude 🥰 We are fundraising to start some peer support groups for survivors of sexual violence and all donations go directly to that. If you are one of the anonymous donors then thank you so much 🙏

We’ve had lots of enquiries about the retreat but no booking yet.

If a month was 28 days, there would be 13 months in a year.

Indeed. And in UK law a ‘month’ is a full calendar month, so 29 days would only be applicable in a February of a leap year. The person involved gave notice at end of August, I think, so 31 days notice required.

Still hoping OP can fill the slot though so that some money can be refunded and she can feel better about an awkward situation.