Do you think your school (whether teacher or parent) genuinely has a zero tolerance approach to bullying?

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Does it match their zero tolerance approach to minor uniform violations (e.g. removing blazer to walk home on a hot day or a child having socks on the knee rather than above the knee). Do children feel more empowered to bully compared to say wearing a bit of mascara? AIBU to consider this when choosing a school?

You sounds quite unhappy and worried. I don’t think you can quantify this stuff as a parent before application.

No school is ever totally on top of bullying. I tutor brothers who go to one of the most elite UK schools. Massive presence on the global stage, educationally. Youngest child is being bullied. Only the threat of his big bro holds them off. The school is very ineffective.

I think you have an agenda, the subtext of which would be that you’re annoyed about punishment for infringement of the rules, but you don’t feel bullying is dealt with.

People select a school preference for many reasons. Primarily, I imagine, because they want a good, all round eduction for their child. Pastoral care is important for many parents, as is opportunities for sport, drama, music and extra curricular activities.

Schools have anti bullying policies, but the interpretation of those depends on how someone is affected by them. When considering a school, it’s wise to consider everything that the school offers, including their policy and responses.

My school doesn’t have these draconian uniform rules and takes bullying very seriously. I wouldn’t work at a school that cared more about a bit of mascara than bullying.

As a teacher I am very lax about things that are technically against the school rules like eating in class, having facial piercings, checking their phone at break etc within reason. I take bullying, exclusion, disruption and other negative behaviour very seriously though.

There are only a couple of teachers in my school that get in a twist about the minor stuff, most are really focused on the overall wellbeing of the students.

Edit: wrong word, no sleep!

We were put off a primary on open day partly because of the heavy focus on their bullying policy in the welcome talk.
The Head of the best secondary in the area said bullying was simply not tolerated in the school.
A friend’s DC who went there was picked on every day of the induction week and bullied throughout most of his time at the school.

I am fortunate to live in a borough with mainly good schools. Realistically there is only one we are in the catchment for, possibly two, depending on the demographic of next year’s intake. The one he is most likely to get into seems very militant on minor things though. It’s a large academy which has swallowed a few schools over the years. Most schools seem to have more students than places, but a few have a number of vacant places.

The open days are coming up shortly and I’ve had the opportunity to speak to some parents and children at the schools over the summer. One parent plans to send their daughter there even though the older one there has been bullied a lot, so horses for courses. A friend’s teen seemed happy enough there, but has chosen to go to a less henpecked (she used a different phrase which I can’t remember) environment for A levels. Another parent said uniform is the hill the school will die on and said that the school has flouted the new uniform guidance. We can afford uniform, so it won’t impact us directly, but does hint at school’s priorities.

I know most, if not all, schools will have bullying and have seen some horrible things posted on here over the years. Some schools seem more motivated than others to tackle it though. He will be coming from a school that has uniform, but with a bit of flexibility e.g. if a child is hot, they just take their jumper off, if a child is more comfortable in trainers, they wear trainers. Bullying is rare and is clamped down on at first opportunity. I accept things are obviously different at primary though.

Ds school is very big on dealing with bullying and I have seen the effort they put in. Unfortunately, it also requires them being able to SEE it, and its often hidden.

Overall, my experience suggests that (certainly around here) most secondary schools are doing their best, with effectiveness varying based on a LOT of variables. but the primaries are terrible. Bullying is generally treated as, at best, children who just dont get on. At worst, seen as a bit of rough housing or similar.

no. not even close.

DS’s school 💯 has a zero tolerance policy to bullying. DS and his best mate were calling each other names just messing around and I received a call home and DS received a detention.

They also are very strict on minor things as well. He’s a good kid, in top set for everything, polite to teachers who all sing his praises. But not a week goes by where he doesn’t have a detention for some minor infringement or another. He just sees school finish time as 4:30 not 3:30 now.

They talk a good game but when push comes to shove, it's only the decent kids who get punished. My ds got suspended for fighting back. Only a detention for the aggressor. The arseholes are pretty much free to do whatever they want time and again knowing that for whatever secret reason, they are allowed to.

Im sorry thats your experience. Its certainly not mine. Ds' school interviews all involved and often can also acces cctv.

There is a woman i know who thinks her children are being targeted. She thinks ds and others are lying about them. I have no idea what she thinks when the school tells her they have cctv but I can only assume she believes that whatever they do that is captured on cctv is justified because of what her children tell her is happening the resr of the time.

On one occasion, yes, ds lashed out as a result of bullying. And yes, he did get detention - the school has a zero tolerance policy to any violence - but the children who had taunted him and caused the problem originally were punished, severely.

@MageKingthat’s true, schools do have to see it. I think some schools are more willing to see it or clamp down on bullying behaviours though. Around here it seems that primaries are much better at this than secondaries, so the other way round to you.

I wish we had had that st primary! Our school.was particularly bad and I know so many parents who gather to talk about 2-3 children in each year group who cause the problems, but it seem to be endemic around here at all the primaries.

Something to do with how the LA manage things perhaps? Or the sort of culture that builds up? I do know that many of the teachers and head teachers across the schools know each other.

Unfortunately, there's sometimes a bit of subjectivity in identifying bullying, whereas a uniform misdemeanor is obvious to everyone.

I sympathise though as, for a while, my dd was being bullied by another girl who was all sugar and sweetness in front of the teachers "oh Susie, such a lovely girl". Her behaviour is categorically not lovely, she pushed kids over, made threats and goaded them with insults everyday, and it took several different parents complaining about her bullying until the teachers finally noticed.

But from the teachers' pov, it's all "(s)he says, (s)he says" until they actually witness it for themselves. Unlike a missing tie which you can spot instantly

I was wondering whether there was a correlation between schools that get overly wound up over minor things, so detentions and isolation become a regular occurrence, so less of a deterrent for serious issues. A PP (sorry, I’m on mobile app so lose my post when I try to scroll to see name) said her DC’s school was strict on both, so maybe not. What sort of things is your DC getting regular detentions for (sounds similar to how friend’s DD described the school I referred to).

I’m sorry.

I'm so with you OP!

And sadly, no. Bullying is not taken as seriously as stupid uniform rules in my experience of 3 schools.

It's ok. I took time off work and we had a nice day out. DS didn't hear a peep out of the other boy again.

@Kingdomofsleepyes, it’s not as black and white. Sorry your DC experienced it.

I was bullied and school did nothing. The girl was a known bully, racist and built like a brick shithouse. I had a really good relationship with my parents, very open too, but I didn’t tell them at the time. I still don’t know why I didn’t until a couple of weeks before she left and that was only because my mum saw it and responded immediately. I did tell my year head though more than once and a friend also reported it with me one time. Nothing happened, anpart from I was allowed to leave a bit earlier one day when she said she was going to beat me up on the way home. It just spiralled - she was awful to so many children and it was just allowed. She was in the year above me, but also bullied children younger than me.

Our school had a rule where you couldn’t wear your jacket inside. I remember getting a detention for that from my year head to try to get to my classroom quicker when bully was behind me - the same week he’d sent me home early. I’d hoped schools had changed a bit, but looks like they’ve got worse in that respect. It seems punishments for tiny things are handed out like sweets, yet the bigger issues have spiralled.

I think it's also that teachers (i am one), like all humans, are subconsciously biased towards the sunny, friendly type children who volunteer to help and answer question etc, rather than the shy, sulky children who don't want to join in.

Yet the bullies are often of the first personality type and the bullied are often of the second.

Edit to add - so when my dd (shy type) complained to me that Susie (sweet and "friendly" type) was bossing her to do bad things, insulting her and pushing her, even i didn't quite believe it until I saw Susie relentlessly doing it on a playdate. Ugh.

If you are referring to me who said that DS’s school is equally strict on bullying as minor things then the minor things really are quite petty.

Eg there are a uniform and equipment requirement list. The equipment list details things that should be in everyone’s pencil case such as red pen, blue pen, green pen, ruler, etc etc. They have spot checks, DS got a detention for not having a green pen in his pencil case!

It frustrates me beyond belief and I think it’s super counter-productive as detentions are not a deterrent any more. DS expects one most days and just sees it as a bonus if he’s allowed to leave school at 3:30.

Be thankful you are not in Scotland, here it's nearly 100% tolerance to bullying in our high schools, sadly

Thank you for your honesty @Kingdomofsleep. Do you think the culture of a particular school can help in tackling bullying? Do you think your school generally handles it well?

My eldest son’s high school definitely takes a zero tolerance to bullying but my younger son’s primary is the total opposite, nothing ever happens and they don’t try and stop anything happening either!

My experience, the schools are so obsessed with attendance statistics and inflating their reputations and keeping their poxy Ofsted ratings, that they no longer suspend, or expel, or even acknowledge bullying and unacceptable behaviours. Word must not get out.

There are now "managed transfers" preferably for unspecified reasons.

So you won't know the real picture until you get there. Possibly worth briefly subscribing to schoolparrot or similar, because you do often get useful insight you won't find elsewhere.