Annoyed about by our Landlady while we’re moving out.

[Weightwoes]

More of a rant really as I know there’s nothing I can do about this but curious if I’m justified in being annoyed by this.

We’ve rented this house from our landlady for just over decade now but having finally saved a deposit we have bought a house so are moving out. We contacted her to ask how much notice she required in light of the new renters rights changes even thought our contract said one month. She insisted on two months so we’re paying rent up to the end of September although we move on the 18th of August, bit annoying but fine, we figured that meant more wiggle room getting end of tenancy clean and garden tidying booked in. What we
hadn’t anticipated was that she was going to start bringing a seeming endless stream of tradesmen in while we’re packing as she selling up and now all the stuff she refused to fix for us needs doing.
We let in the first few as it was quick but then she tried to come on the day we are moving out and we told her absolutely not. My husband politely messaged her after that to suggest as she has a whole month and a bit of us paying rent where the house will be standing empty where she can do what she wants could she not just wait until then and she just replied with a comment about not doing conflict, whatever she thinks that means.
She was here this morning for the third time in fours days and as she was leaving she dropped in that she’d see me again tomorrow at 6pm. She’d never mentioned this before and when I questioned what it was for she said it was for a a decorator to come measure and eat for painting. I asked how on earth he’s going to manage that when the house is full of boxes etc and she was implying I’d have to make room. I said it wasn’t possible and could she not possibly wait until we’ve left for all this. Well she blew up at me about how her husband is ill and she has every right to come in as much as she wants and left slamming that door.
For the record I’ve met her husband many times over the years and genuinely like him, but I fail to see how waiting until next Wednesday is going to make any difference to his health.
She’s been here twice to measure the same taps and just lingers chatting at me while I’m trying to pack, on Friday she kept a poor plumber chatting in my door way for a good 30 mins. I’m just so stressed with packing and everything else for moving and utterly fed up of her so not sure if it’s just me over reacting and she’s being entirely reasonable.

That's good news! Send her an email to confirm what she said and that it is a month's notice and the date that the tenancy will end. Ask where he wants the keys returned to- posting them through the letter box could be a good option if she's on holiday, though make sure you film yourself doing it.

It's not waiting until you've moved out, it's waiting until your tenancy is finished end of September.

Tell her to take a hike.

Going on holiday? Blimey, didn’t her husband recover quickly?

She is totally unreasonable. If you have moved out you should tell her that she can have the deposit for the final month's rent. With all the work needed/going on there is no way a reasonable end of tenancy check can be made. You do not need a reference. She is a CF.

Your contract said a month? Renters rights is a month? Why are you paying two-months?

There is no obligation to pay for 2 months and no sensible person would pay an extra month and extra council tax/ utility fees when you dont need to and she'll have workmen in there. Just tell her she lied to you about the notice period required and you will only pay one month. Also that if any workmen are allowed to enter before you hand back the keys she is liable for any and all charges due on the property.

Deposit services dont make a lot of deductions from deposits because landlords often present poorly documented claims. She has no right to 2 months rent and the likelihood that she will make a valid claim for any form of damage after 10 years is very low.

Did you have an inventory when you moved in? If the answer is no the chance of recovering anything for damage or even for cleaning is almost zero. Landlords are not entitles to betterment and if you had been there for less time they would still have had to make deductions for wear and tear. After 10 years virtually all deductions for wear and tear are 100%. If they cant prove condition when you moved in and the place is reasonably clean they would struggle even to claim for cleaning, especially if tradesmen are going in.

Yes, I wanted to say this, too. Even though you’ll be paying rent for longer, you have no need of gas, electric, or tv/phone/broadband in your name after the day you move out. If the workmen come in and have no juice, whilst she’s on holiday, that’s just tough, if she’d behaved better, it wouldn’t have come to this.
I think I skim-read upthread someone saying that you could just withhold your rent for the last two months and tell her to take if from the deposit, but unfortunately proper deposit schemes don’t work that way. Do make sure you take photos of the property after you have moved out and the cleaning has been done, with the time and date on them, so you have evidence to show when it comes to an argument about the deposit (which I have no doubt it will).

I would ask her to clearly state what date she is ending the tenancy in order that she can proceed with works on the property and tell her no works are to start until that time. Once she has done so, accept her date in writing and ask for the pro-rata rent for the month to be returned to you by the end of the month (or if she gives a date in September, then tell her you will pay whatever the pro-rata rate is on the first of September.

If she doesn't give you a date, do not return the keys and keep an eye on the property. As soon as you see anyone in there, enter, take photos and write to her telling her she has clearly breached your tenancy and you expect the pro-rata rent to be returned to you by the end of the month.

(Also, make sure you get all utilities canceled the day you move out. You don't want to be paying for her use of them!).

She has treated you appallingly and illegally.

It seems that a lot of people are still assuming that you have to stay for the two months and giving you garbled information such as stopping the utility bills before the tenancy is officially ended- you can't do that with the utility bills as you are responsible for them (inc. the standing charges) until the tenancy officially ends.
Honestly, you just need to tell the landlord that she made a mistake about the notice period that is required and provide her with the links I put on here earlier today as proof, and that you are therefore ending the tenancy after the one month is up. Then all you need to do is clean the property to a decent standard and arrange a convenient date for the check out meeting. Also confirm that she doesn't have permission to enter the flat whether you're there or not until the tenancy has ended.
It's very straight forward really, though your landlord has made it into a huge drama.

I’m actually starting to worry if she’s ok. We woke up this morning to a flurry of emails from her that are really odd. Yesterday after my husband emailed to say she had not told us about the intended visit today she sent back a passive aggressive email saying that she was going to defer having tradesmen in as I was so obviously stressed by moving and ended with wishing us a a happy future. This morning she’s resent two separate emails where she requested entry with a tradesman like some kind of gotcha to prove she did ask us permission except they all mention the 18th which is our moving day where we told her not that day. We’re now wondering if all the deferment guff was in response to the 18th and she thinks she’s still coming in today or whether she’s muddled up the dates and thinks she’s talking about today and trying to prove she did tell us.
My husband has just emailed back pointing out these are all about the 18th and no mention on the 11th. I refuse to deal with her as she has form for being patronising and passive aggressive in case anyone wonders why my husband is doing all the messaging.

Morning!
I think I may be a tad over invested in your situation...
She does sound confused and confusing. I think you need to keep repeating the mantra to her that you 'will be leaving on the 18th August when your one month's notice is complete, and that in the meantime you aren't able to allow any access to the property to her or her workmen'. On repeat!
Ensure you've prearranged where to leave the keys and you have the checkout meeting arranged, so if she turns up on your moving out day with workmen etc you can tell her to go away as that's not what was arranged. Take millions of photos when the place is empty.
Then apply to whichever deposit scheme you're in for the full return of your deposit.

She’s gone silent on us now, so no idea if she’s taking in what we’ve said or if she’s going to just turn up anyway at this point. What worries me is in both the emails she resent she made a point of saying she has keys to let them in herself. Having a nightmare vision of her letting herself in while we’re moving or the cleaners are doing their thing the day after and her just generally being a nuisance. My son has autism and he’s dealing with moving pretty well so far but still stressed enough that I don’t want any confrontation with her while he’s around which seems impossible to avoid if she just turns up.

But she can't come on the 18th until the time you have agreed to hand over the keys, usually noon, and she can't have another months rent, utilities and council tax from you - can she?

Or are you still saying that think that's the easy way out so you are happy to not only pay but bear the liability for damages on top of those costs?

Will you still be within your one month's notice period when the cleaners come in the day after you move?
It'll be problematic if you aren't as she'll be wanting workmen in etc and your cleaners won't be able to clean.
As for her telling you she'll let herself in with keys while you still have the tenancy, you need to be very explicit and tell her that on no account do you agree to this, and that she will be acting illegally if she does so. Can you leave the key in the lock inside, so at least she can't do it while you're in?
She really is behaving appallingly.

She knows we move out on the 18th but we haven’t agreed yet any date to hand over keys yet as we haven’t been able to book in gardeners to tidy the back up. We thought maybe giving them to her after that week would prevent having to come back from our new house every time she wanted access. Obviously having thought about and our liability we probably won’t now so its more about trying to stop her wanting work starting at this point as I can see her arguing it’s empty and she’s been very vocal that we can’t stop her.

If she’d have accepted one months notice it would have been the end of August, we would have had the house empty, clean and the gardened tidy well before then. Given she’s now suddenly said they won’t be here the week we move out and they almost always go away from weeks at a time I’ve no idea when she actually thinks she’s going to take the keys back or who’s giving all these tradesmen entry. I suspect in her mind she thinks she can go away and leave me to deal the tradesmen for her while she has a nice holiday as I’m still her tenant until end of September, that’s generally the level of entitlement she’s shown over the years …
Realising how foolish I’ve been to expect her to act decently when we’re leaving when she never has before.

At least you'll get a bit of respite from her hopefully while she's on holiday...
You have the tenancy til the end of August so you need to tell her in writing that no one is to enter the property until the end of August date whilst you still have a legal tenancy and are responsible for the property itself and the utility bills and council tax.
Once you've cleaned and the gardener has been in, you could try negotiating a refund of the last few days in return for giving back the keys.

whatever you do dont give the keys back before the end of the agreed notice you dont want to be liable for damage or electric bills and how wold you prove you werent even there

She could give the keys back early and confirm in writing that they have agreed that the tenancy ended at that point.

but shes paying till september how does that work

No she shouldn't be, as we've established that Op is entitled to only give one month's rent, not two as the landlord stated.
OP- I'm assuming that the landlord has now accepted this?

This is a really good point. All that work she’s having done is going to be done on your utility bills, you have to give the providers and council your end of tenancy date.

Tell her via email that she is not to access the property unless she gives 24 hours written notice and obtains your consent. The fucking cheeky cow!!

Please do this!

no shes stated until end of september the ll wont agree to earlier but wants to fix the place up before hand

We’ve already contacted our energy provider, water and council tax etc and she knows this as she said about taking photos of the meters in the new and old house so to be honest I’m not sure what she’s planning in that regard. Maybe she plans to set something up in her own name?
She was very insistent on knowing our moving date so she could change her insurance (no idea what change she’s making.) although we did point out that we wouldn’t be finished with the house on moving day as it needed cleaning and we had some bulky furniture to be removed and recycled while the house is empty.