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Did men and women in the ancient ages love their spouses?

70 replies

Thiscantgoonlikethis · 25/07/2026 12:35

I’m just struck by the central theme of the Odyssey being a man trying to make it back to his wife. Is this a modern emphasis?
I know Homer did feature Odysseus and Penelope as truly in love with eachother.
But for the every day man, or wolsn who was probably voiceless, did they feel love for eachother? As we understand it.

OP posts:
Sadcafe · 25/07/2026 18:36

Don’t know, haven’t had the opportunity to ask them

BallerinaFall · 25/07/2026 18:53

Emily Hausers book talks about the burial of babies/children in this ancient greek/civilisations period and said they have found that evidence that burials of the young members of the family were often within the home as opposed to being else where in the community which shows the importance of keeping them close by /within the family space

HoppityBun · 25/07/2026 19:23

wafflesmgee · 25/07/2026 13:30

Even within the poorer classes women were often traded through marriage and seen by their fathers as a asset to be bartered, even if only to ensure alliances with other poor families of similar professions or thinking of how to use grandsons in your chosen profession eg a dad who was a blacksmith might marry off his daughter to an iron merchant to ensure continued mutually beneficial trade.
the poorest of the poor women were always one step away from prostitution (similar to today) so would be effectively bartered for protection/money or to pay off debts

In Cumberland, wives could be sold, if they consented. Easier than a divorce and it meant that she was provided for

Weeellokthen · 25/07/2026 19:28

Wasn't "love" just invented in 1742?

ShakyBake · 25/07/2026 22:36

I know it sounds a bit woo but I attended the 'your life in a previous life' live show a few years ago, Berkshire. It turns out a close friend of mine was actually a cleaner for an ancient Pharro in Egypt who witness his downfall after losing his wife, it completely broke him and he died of a broken heart. I believe the date was approx 1500 BC so clearly there were strong emotional bonds way back then too

WaryCrow · 25/07/2026 23:19

You could try Plato’s ‘Symposium’ for similar stories. And consider the existence of Aphrodite. Humans have not noticeably evolved in 2000 years and had emotions as well as (often superior) intelligence back then.

For homosexual - lesbian - love try Sappho.

InterestedDad37 · 25/07/2026 23:23

HoppityBun · 25/07/2026 19:23

In Cumberland, wives could be sold, if they consented. Easier than a divorce and it meant that she was provided for

See also Thomas Hardy's 'The Mayor of Casterbridge"

LagerLady · 25/07/2026 23:25

Most people were owned back then. Maybe the owning class fell in love.

AwayWiththeGoblins · 26/07/2026 00:09

Romantic love isn’t some kind of trans historical, transcultural law across all times and places, no. For much of human history, marriages were primarily dynastic, to do with family alliances, and romantic love was an entirely separate concept. Look at the troubadours and the idea of courtly love that emerged in medieval in France — knights or poets pining for unobtainable ladies, in stark contrast to the political/economic marriages.

IThinkThereforeIPaint · 26/07/2026 00:40

ShakyBake · 25/07/2026 22:36

I know it sounds a bit woo but I attended the 'your life in a previous life' live show a few years ago, Berkshire. It turns out a close friend of mine was actually a cleaner for an ancient Pharro in Egypt who witness his downfall after losing his wife, it completely broke him and he died of a broken heart. I believe the date was approx 1500 BC so clearly there were strong emotional bonds way back then too

Amazing!

Clearly people in the past loved as we did. But there are many traditions throughout time of typical romantic love being outside marriage. Whether same sex men/boys in ancient Greece or the medieval courtly love. Or Sei Shonagon's pillow book from Japan a thousand years ago.

Which doesn't mean that married couples didn't love each other, but it was acknowledged that many marriages were practical and people might find love outside them (even if this was forbidden).

Friendlygingercat · 26/07/2026 02:57

For sure people in ages past felt emotions and fell in love just as we do. However among the aristocracy and royalty marriage was more of a business contract than a union of love. It was used to cement and consolidate estates and trade relations. The partners often knew very little of one another before the ceremony. That's not to say that they did not grow to love one another as time went on.

An example is king George V and Queen Mary. She was engaged to marry his brother Eddy but on his premature death she was married to the younger brother. It was certainly a marriage of convenience. They were both very reserved people but they grew to love one another in time. Their private letters to one another show a very tender relationship.

TooBigForMyBoots · 26/07/2026 02:59

The ancient Greeks named and loved all the loves.

They defined them, wrote about them and lived them. In their own special, patriarchal way. Where women were always at the bottom of the pile.

Unless they were Spartan women.

Elsvieta · 26/07/2026 21:32

Of course people fell in love, but I think there were a lot more people who married without it, just because it was a lot harder for either sex to survive without the other. A European peasant in the middle ages (for example) didn't have the same expectations of emotional fulfilment from marriage that we do now. A woman couldn't survive economically without a man; a man couldn't make a living and also do all the domestic stuff because the domestic stuff was a full-time job. So people just thought a good marriage was one where each partner filled their social role adequately. People just didn't believe that love should be prioritised in the way that we do now. It was often seen as a dangerous thing that draws people away from the important things in life, such as making a living, keeping your wealth in the family, acting for the good of the community and following the moral precepts of your religion. The modern idea that we should allow our feelings to dictate our behaviour would have seemed pretty alien.

mathanxiety · 27/07/2026 00:49

BallerinaFall · 25/07/2026 18:53

Emily Hausers book talks about the burial of babies/children in this ancient greek/civilisations period and said they have found that evidence that burials of the young members of the family were often within the home as opposed to being else where in the community which shows the importance of keeping them close by /within the family space

Or perhaps the family avoided costs of plots or ritual sacrifice/ offerings to deities associated with burial in official spaces?

TempestTost · 27/07/2026 01:15

I agree with other posts pointing out that people are fundamentally the same.

I'd just say though, that while it's true that people were more pragmatic about marriage, and many unions were based on practical considerations, that doesn't mean that couples didn't in many cases love each other.

People in arranged marriages today often love each other as well.

HollyhocksandPeons · 27/07/2026 01:33

You think people changed? Seriously?

maxslice · 27/07/2026 01:53

Sometimes they loved each other. Often it was often more of a business transaction. And in such cases, men felt free to have sex with other women. And men. And boys. Read the poet Ovid.

SNESRainbowRoad · 27/07/2026 03:03

Archaeologist here. We have good evidence throughout the past that people did understand the concept of love but as it’s an abstract feeling we cannot truly prove or disprove that any given person in a couple truly feels love for their partner.

In societies with class systems, whether they acted on love and how they acted on it was determined by the social conventions of their society. So for example someone born to a politically important family would quite often seek a match that put their offspring in a similar or higher position. But it is called a match for a reason- if the relationship did not work from the outset it wouldn’t be made official (unless one of the parents was really bloodyminded). That doesn’t necessarily mean the partners were in love but it doesn’t mean they weren’t, either. If you look at the way royal matches were made, the vast majority of royals had multiple potential matches and chose the one they best liked. If all upper class individuals were pushed into loveless arranged marriages with no personal agency, we wouldn’t have famous examples like Elizabeth I or Jane Austen who were lifelong spinsters- we wouldn’t have the word spinster!

The concept of matrimony itself hasn’t been consistent across all cultures/times. The working classes/serf classes etc have generally been more able to partner up with someone they loved but this wasn’t a given. Some cultures had arranged marriages and some just let most people get on with things. The main reason in the recent past that people would have been pushed into marrying someone they didn’t really love would be if there was an unwedded pregnancy. The alternative was a mother and baby home so most women were more willing to marry someone they didn’t love. On both sides of my family, there have been coerced weddings like this - one in the 1940s and one in the 1970s (that one was Irish), and one aunt who got put in a mother and baby home because the bloke wouldn’t marry her. It is easy for us to think the whole of the past was like this but it wasn’t, that’s the fallacy of projecting what we know or remember about the more recent past onto the more distant past.

Christianity has a lot to answer for in this regard. The ancient Hellenic cultures had a very different view of love and marriage (and sexuality), but fidelity was still very important (in the way that they understood it). It would be a mistake for us to assume that one voice from a specific period of time was necessarily fully representative of every individual from that time. But if love as a concept didn’t exist then it makes no sense that we have so much literature about it. In fact it is the central theme of most secular fiction throughout time!

I always thought Odysseus did love Penelope, in the book he slays all the suitors. He wasn’t faffing around on his way back to her - the gods literally decided to fuck with him and throw as many obstacles as possible in his way to stop him. The only reason he made it back was because Pallas Athene (sometimes called Athena) was on his side. More evidence that he loved his whole family a lot - he pretended to be insane to avoid going to the Trojan wars in the first place because his wife had a newborn and he wanted to support her, but got caught out when they threw his baby in front of a plough he was dicking around with and he proved he was sane by saving the baby. He could have just decided fuck it and made another baby if he didn’t love his wife and son. So I believe Odysseus was supposed to be depicted as loving Penelope but that this wasn’t necessarily expressed the way we express it nowadays with all the kissing etc.

I haven’t seen the film but if there’s lots of sickly kissy hand holding that’s a modern depiction to show a modern audience what can be inferred from the text.

GarlicEverywhere · 27/07/2026 03:13

MySnappySloth · 25/07/2026 12:58

I don't think that's true. Poor AF people have married poor AF people since marriage was invented.

There was no financial incentive. They were just poor together and had DC that were also poor.

Not what we'd call love, in many cases. Bride stealing was a tradition throughout Europe and probably beyond. It's been repackaged as a romantic adventure, but what actually happened was that a man would literally kidnap a young woman and rape her. Now she was 'spoiled', she was forced to marry her rapist.

There are solid records of aristocrats doing this to get their hands on their victims' fathers' wealth, but it was certainly widespread among the common classes.

Some Central European countries still have a problem with it.

GarlicEverywhere · 27/07/2026 03:17

Re the Odyssey: Emily Wilson used to be on here! She posted while she was working on her translation 😍 I think some of you could do with her input - or maybe read the book?

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