AIBU to think a 2% wealth tax on the rich is unfair?

[Mrspepperpotpot]

i just saw an article and petition from oxfam saying if we taxed the ‘super rich’ 2% it would solve a lot of problems. They were suggesting 2% on anyone worth 10 million. Everyone in the comments agreed

I just don’t understand this mentality. High earners are hit at every turn. They usually use private health and private schools, pay the most tax, get hit with tax on savings, IHT, land tax, pensions etc etc Why on earth should people earn money to be taxed on it, to then be taxed on it again and again.

Why do people begrudge others having money when they’ve worked extremely hard to get it? Why isn’t there uproar about benefits instead?

I know this will never actually happen but the amount of people who seem to want it to is astonishing

the skills and knowledge to run a successfully large company. Potentially tech knowledge.
its not just about companies leaving but not choosing to come to the UK in the first place or the companies not being built.

You say Dyson took jobs out of the uk, of course that has contributed to harming out economy - people can’t find jobs. These people then don’t pay tax and need welfare support.

But he did that under the Tories.

People do not all start from the same starting point. Treating people equitably is not the same as treating people equally. How many of those £10m+ people went to private school, had private healthcare etc themselves?

Absolutely this 👏

Agree that’s kind of basic insight.

They'd have to do the same as the rest of us when faced with a bill we can't afford. Consider whether we need to adjust our lifestyle. In this case, downsize. Its not as though they'd struggle for properties up to a value of £9.8m, is it?
Why is the lifestyle of multi millionaires seen as sacrosanct when ordinary people constantly have to find the money for things and look for ways to economise?

Inconvenient fact.

On the subject of moving manufacturing offshore, I was caught in that. And what happened with that company is it was the grant funded machines that were shipped out. Though TBF, that was not UK.

However, it is worth remembering that so many of these companies do directly benefit from taxation. Grants and low interest loans. And once the loans dry up, they often move to a new place, with new loans and new incentives.

I randomly found this -

Purchasing Equipment Funding Opportunities For UK Businesses – Get Business Grants

"Every single scheme is different, for some smaller capital purchasing grants it is possible to get up to 100% of the equipment costs covered. Other higher costing equipment can see businesses expected to provide a contribution of funding from other sources, ranging from 30% of costs covered by the grant up to 90% of the total item costs covered. In many cases this is to ensure that the grant applicant is financially solvent and serious about long term success and willing to take on some of the financial risk themselves. It also means that by receiving partial/matched funding, a business might be able to purchase a higher cost equipment than they would have done without the grant.
From the current set of grants and loans available in the UK for Purchasing Equipment, a total amount awarded or loaned ranges from under £1,000 for individual small item purchases, up to £2 million and above for larger scale strategic purchases."

Folk often forget about this stuff in these chats. Corporate welfare.

Like, and I won't link it, how the private rail companies get government subsidies that near match the dividends they pay out.

Because as you hint at above, we end up with rich robber barons holding the country to ransome.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think these proposals are aimed at high earners. They’re aimed at super wealthy individuals whose wealth isn’t coming from “income” and therefore the rate of tax they’re actually paying is less than employed individuals. Everyone is always up in arms about these sort of suggestions, but they’re not coming for people earning £100k, or even £200k, they’re aimed towards individuals with tens of milllions in assets and a level of wealth inconceivable to 99.9% of the population.

Always baffles me how quick people are to jump to the defence of the super wealthy!

Yup. And it's Oxfam that talked about it. So monies raised will be for specifics. Not to go in the general guv spending pot.

I too am amazed at how many people think the super rich paying a bit more tax will end society as we know it.

Many low earners can’t afford to go
on holiday!!

Never mind holidays. many can't afford to pay rent or for food.

But never mind them. The rich landlords must be protected from paying another penny in tax.

I don’t think it’s unfair I think it’s doomed to fail. It’s been tried and abolished by Austria, Germany, Netherlands, Finland, Denmark, Iceland, Luxembourg, Sweden, France.

Too complicated to make it work. And expensive to do. Which is why although “wealth tax” sounds good it’s not a good idea at all.

But that's not the point. They are happy to do that because they enjoy the work/perks/etc. That does not mean they should be penalised by having to pay additional tax. Not when they already pay more! Or, by the same token, people in less pressured jobs should be happy to have less and not expect to be subsidised.

Quote : " Or, by the same token, people in less pressured jobs should be happy to have less and not expect to be subsidised.".

They do have less. And most are happy, so far as I can work out. And how are they subsidised ?

I think there are many slightly delusional people who think it applies to them (again, my understanding of wealth tax is that it’s not applying to high earners in the traditional sense!)

Really? I think people can discuss taxes and outcomes generally.

Once a person reaches the level of wealth we're talking about here, their choices are almost unlimited. So anyone feeling pressured by the responsibility can change that at any time. They 'earn' £1.4m a day whether they work or not. So the responsibility and graft is entirely optional.
This is not pressure. Pressure by definition is weight pressing down upon you. Pressure is the person in a reasonably paid job who has to work incredibly hard doing excessive hours to afford an increasing cost of living. They don't choose this, there is no plan B for them. Why should they be happy to have less?

Of course they absolutely can!

My point is just that it’s a tax that simply will not negatively affect 99.9% of working people, but will likely have a positive impact on the country’s finances. It seems to be met with a level of vehemence from people who will actually benefit from it!

The harsh reality is that most of the critics of wealth tax proposals are far closer to the life of benefits claimants they so often disparage than they are to billionaires.

Read a book called “The Spirit Level”, that will answer that question for you.

Not when you’re already taxed 45% from your income. People worth 10mil don’t have that floating around the bank. They have it in assets.

as for offal, didn’t they come under fire for excessive spending on the internal running of the company and how much they paid their bigwigs

Most high earners don't have £10 million or more, so this is not about your average fairly-wealthy person: you would have to have a sizable inheritance or to have done pretty well in the stock market. And I don't think there's likely to be a 2% tax even on those with 10 million-it would be quite a bit lower.

the problem isn’t one of fairness, you can make an argument for fairness. It’s that it doesn’t work. Wealth taxes never raise as much as governments hope because wealthy people can move quite easily to lower taxation regimes. Italy and Switzerland have a one-off ‘fee’ for wealthy expats- I think Italy has just boosted theirs to €300k from €100k, people are still currently willing to pay as it’s’one and done’ I suppose.

I've actually met some. The maid my family member has is treated perfectly fairly. She's seen as one of the family, sees her kids often and definitely isn't oppressed. I'm not saying there's not any issue. But I don't think every single working class person is oppressed. And things are better for them, than in the past.

Many of them find that their pay is significantly more than what they would have earned at home and actually send a lot of money back.

Just don't criticise the government as well. I did that when I went to the UAE.

The whole idea of fair and unfair is kind of irrelevant. We demand huge amounts of government services and demand they do more and more. They need to be paid for.

About two thirds of the tax take comes from income tax, national insurance, VAT and corporation tax. A wealth tax won’t bring in meaningful money because it will be far too complicated to do.

If the government need more money they need to increase the 4 big taxes, not tinker around the edges with a PR stunt.

And I’m sure people will say they should spend less but they won’t. And we all took furlough money etc during Covid, we borrowed money as a country to do that, we need it to pay it back.

And the idea that because I’m not worth £10m I shouldn’t care is a nonsense. If the government don’t come up with sustainable funding models our public services will suffer in the long run.