to think DM is unfair to ban the twins from visiting?

[timetoban]

My sister has four children: an 6-year-old, a 5-year-old and 2-year-old twins.
The older two are easy visitors. They tend to sit quietly, chat a bit and spend a lot of time on their screens. The twins, however, are typical two-year-olds. They run around, make noise, have the occasional tantrum and create a bit of mess.
DM is very house-proud and likes everything neat, tidy and pristine.

She has become increasingly irritated by the twins whenever they visit. She complains that they don't sit nicely, don't behave properly and are too noisy. Personally, I think her expectations of two-year-olds are unrealistic.

The latest development is that she has told DSis that the twins are no longer welcome at her house. She says DSis can bring the older two, but not the younger ones.

The problem is that DSis's husband works long hours and isn't always available to stay home with the twins. So in practice, this means DSis often can't visit at all, or has to choose between seeing DM and staying with her younger children.

DM says it's her house and she's entitled to decide who comes into it. DSis feels hurt that two of her children have effectively been singled out and excluded.

Some of the people agreeing are more along the right lines with you.

I have heard the other side. This thread is not the only place this has been discussed.

My sister has accepted the ban on her twins visiting.

Great - then what’s the issue?

If you are just venting and only wanted people to agree, it would have been better to state that at the beginning.

Oh come on. You see it here all the time. Elderly people who had little engagement with kids and grandkids, suddenly expecting younger family members to run around after them, and being bafgled as to why they won't.

Sometimes you do hear something on hear that does make you see things differently. Sometimes it just confirms your opinion, because the counter arguments are unconvincing.

Presumably she doesn’t see visit weekly anymore? Hasn’t your sister just stopped? If I were her dh, and worked long hours, like fuck would I be facilitating visits on my precious weekends, she obviously wasn’t a great mum to you and your sister either and she’s a terrible grandma. Your sister is surely visiting max once every month or two now. I’d just message every week and say I can’t leave the twins so I can’t manage a visit, hope you’re well see you next time.
send it again next week. Send it again the week after.

Anyone would get overwhelmed by toddler twins. If you want a relationship with their mum and siblings, however, you find a way to deal with it.

She has a daughter that regularly makes the effort to take grandkids to visit. So may parents would dream of that.
if dm is houseproud she should visit her daughter in daughters house where the twins have all their toys etc

What’s the other side? Given the comment the op was responding to where you said you’re sure the grandma doesn’t expect to be looked after, and the op says she certainly does, is the other side that you know her mum much better than she does so all the things the op says about her is wrong? There isn’t any other logical interpretation of ‘the other side’ to that exchange except you’re right and she’s wrong… about her mum. Sounds delusional to me.

Are you new to forums?

No in fact I’m not new to fora. Are you?

It’s usually an exchange of thoughts and ideas. I know people like your mother sounds from your description. It’s not as rare as it could be.

Perhaps you could confirm what it is you are looking for on the thread?

Wanting to have some discussion with other people is very normal human behaviour. As people have said sometimes it gives you insights or ideas that you wouldn't have thought of.

I totally agree. In fact, the less help and support these elderly people give to their adult kids, often following on from giving their kids a pretty unpleasant childhood like OP's mum, the more they feel entitled to hands-on care from their adult children. They are basically just mean and selfish at all stages of their lives to the detriment of their children and grandchildren.

Hopefully, OP will make set out her own boundaries in relation to elderly care as clearly as her mum has done in relation to having her grandchildren in her home.

I agree. And that’s what I’m doing.

I’m ND so I don’t always get the tone right but I’m trying to give some insight into why the mother might be behaving as she is, from my own experience, because people are using emotive terms like ‘evil’ - this situation seems more complex and nuanced than that.

If you have an issue with my tone, then fine, I will apologise. But if it’s the content then I’m not sure what I have done wrong tbh.

Of course another thing to do would be to ignore my posts.

It's just a bit off that you're so certain that this woman is making an informed decision with a full understanding about the consequences of alienating her children and grandchildren. The OP is obviously going to have a more accurate insight to this than a stranger.

Why is it so offensive to give people credit for having thought something through?

People can make decisions others find terrible but it doesn’t mean they haven’t thought about it. And in any case they will bear the natural consequences so it makes little difference.

I just always find it quite off when someone insists that they have a better insight than the OP who knows this woman and knows that she's going to expect relationships when it suits her.

I don’t claim that and it wasn’t my intention. Like I said, I’m ND so it doesn’t always come across clearly.

I can only go on what the OP has said.

If the thread was started to vent then I was unaware, I assumed it was to get different points of view.

if I was your sister I wouldn’t be visiting her anymore, I’d tell her she is welcome to come visit us all at my house but I won’t be leaving 2 of my children behind to come to your house. DM sounds awful!

I am not new to forums no.

I understand people can start threads for whatever reasons they want. They do not need to justify to other users why they started a thread and what they want to get out of a thread - something you seem to be struggling with.

That is why I said to her do you know my DM? She keeps acting like she knows her even down to mentioning her thoughts! Weird.

In what world is a Grandparent not wanting a relationship with their Grandchildren deemed as fine?

It’s perfectly fine to want some adult time with your relatives but that doesn’t mean you cut out the children completely.

How old is your mum?
Is there a family history of dementia?
My FIL was like that with BIL children 5 years later diagnosed with dementia.

I have explained why I posted like I did, so not sure why you are now sniping with another poster about me 🤷‍♀️

If you don’t agree with my posts then you have the option to ignore.

They also have the option to respond. They are exercising that option. You could always ignore it if it bothers you.

I could but then I have a right to defend myself when people come for me for daring to suggest a different view. 🤷‍♀️