to think DM is unfair to ban the twins from visiting?

[timetoban]

My sister has four children: an 6-year-old, a 5-year-old and 2-year-old twins.
The older two are easy visitors. They tend to sit quietly, chat a bit and spend a lot of time on their screens. The twins, however, are typical two-year-olds. They run around, make noise, have the occasional tantrum and create a bit of mess.
DM is very house-proud and likes everything neat, tidy and pristine.

She has become increasingly irritated by the twins whenever they visit. She complains that they don't sit nicely, don't behave properly and are too noisy. Personally, I think her expectations of two-year-olds are unrealistic.

The latest development is that she has told DSis that the twins are no longer welcome at her house. She says DSis can bring the older two, but not the younger ones.

The problem is that DSis's husband works long hours and isn't always available to stay home with the twins. So in practice, this means DSis often can't visit at all, or has to choose between seeing DM and staying with her younger children.

DM says it's her house and she's entitled to decide who comes into it. DSis feels hurt that two of her children have effectively been singled out and excluded.

That's batshit. Of course she can make whatever decisions she wants about her own house and who comes into it but that's categorically insane behaviour unless the twins are drawing on walls or really damaging the house and your sister does nothing to stop them?

Is your mum actually fully aware that she is pretty much giving up a relationship with her child and grandchildren? If she is fully aware of that, then it’s up to her. It’s a real shame for your sister but why would she want to keep pursuing a relationship with a woman who is so hostile to her own grandchildren?

I’d have a word if it was my mum, and I’d tell her how ridiculous she was being and how she was risking the family, and wouldn’t have a relationship with her grandchildren if she carried on. But then I’d have to leave the decision to her, as it is her house. But I’d probably also limit contact and spend the time I’d visit her at my sister’s instead.

Didn't the older two misbehave when they were younger? It depends a bit on the level of mess and noise involved really, and how much your sister is doing to stop them as to how unreasonable your mum is being

She can ban the twins from visiting if she likes, but she then does not get to whinge about not seeing your sister enough, or not getting to spend "quality time" with the older two. If this damages your mum's relationship with your sister and her children, it is completely on your mum.

What does your mum propose your sister does with the twins? Leave them home alone?
I’d stop visiting and say to the mum that she’ll have to make the effort to come to her house instead then.

Oh no your poor Sister, I don't really have any advice cant your mum visit them ? But tbh I probably would just stay away if it was me.

Who is it that wants the visits to continue?

Bloody hell that's awful! If any of my family banned any of my kids from visiting I wouldn't bother with that family member anymore. Especially if it was my own mother!

Why on earth would you visit someone who didn't tolerate half of your children? Everyone can absolutely decide who they want in their house but can't be overly surprised not to maintain a relationship with blood relatives who are banned.

Sis should just stay away.

That would be the last visit she’d EVER get from me or ANY of my kids if that was me.

seriously.

What kind of mother is this. I am sorry OP for you and your sister.

I’d stop visiting full stop. You either see all of us or none of us

I always think it's hilarious when someone other than the OP (usually parent) puts 'boundaries' in place.
MNetters love boundaries, are very firm on their house their rules and know that 'no is a complete sentence'.
Well, this grandmother has done all of the above - what's the problem?

That's awful, your poor sister having such a rubbish, unsupportive mother.
Does your mum ever visit her house?

The twins are not damaging the house. They are making a mess at times and my sister is keep an eye on the twins as much as she can but it is not easy with four children.

I’d tell your mum that if her scatter cushions mean more to her than her grandchildren, she can do without the rest of you as well.

The older two were similar and were hard at work at times. Most toddlers are. I think it unrealistic to keep everything pristine with young children.

DM. She doesn't like going to my sisters house as then all four children are there and she hates the noise.

How bad is their behaviour? How much does your sister do to make them behave?

How old is your mother and how much of a mess is her house when they go home?

No. She likes people to visit her but rarely visits others herself.

Are you really this simple-minded? I “love boundaries” I think they are very important and holding them is a valuable skill. That doesn’t mean I would support someone announcing a “no breathing in my presence” boundary. Because that would be nuts.

She is telling you she can't cope with 5 young children in the house. Help her rather than take advice about cutting her off.