to think DM is unfair to ban the twins from visiting?

[timetoban]

My sister has four children: an 6-year-old, a 5-year-old and 2-year-old twins.
The older two are easy visitors. They tend to sit quietly, chat a bit and spend a lot of time on their screens. The twins, however, are typical two-year-olds. They run around, make noise, have the occasional tantrum and create a bit of mess.
DM is very house-proud and likes everything neat, tidy and pristine.

She has become increasingly irritated by the twins whenever they visit. She complains that they don't sit nicely, don't behave properly and are too noisy. Personally, I think her expectations of two-year-olds are unrealistic.

The latest development is that she has told DSis that the twins are no longer welcome at her house. She says DSis can bring the older two, but not the younger ones.

The problem is that DSis's husband works long hours and isn't always available to stay home with the twins. So in practice, this means DSis often can't visit at all, or has to choose between seeing DM and staying with her younger children.

DM says it's her house and she's entitled to decide who comes into it. DSis feels hurt that two of her children have effectively been singled out and excluded.

Your mum will have to visit your sister then, rather than vice versa. And your mum doesn't get to complain about not seeing her, or the two "acceptable" kids. Two year olds are never going to sit quietly.

I wouldn't say it is bad - just normal toddler behaviour. My sister feels like she has to tell them off all the time to appease DM. They make a mess with toys but so do most very young children. My sister tidies everything up after every visit.

I am loving the comments on this thread already because when my parents did something similar and banned my step-children from their home some people thought they were completely reasonable and others thought it was bang out of order. With your biological grandkids I think it’s even worse. Honestly if I were your sister I would tell her to bog off. If she wants to see any of the kids she’ll have to go to your sister’s house or take them all out so they don’t mess up her home.

It is 4 young children.

Help who?

Totally unhinged. She’s perfectly entitled to invite who she wants, your sister is perfectly entitled to not visit again. Appalling treatment of her daughter and grandchildren - tell your sister to invite her over - if she chooses not to visit then that speaks volumes about the type of grandparent, parent and person she is.

Yes. Is that relevant?

I think the thing with twins, they're not individually worse than singletons but with one kid at that age it's easy for one or two adults to sort of manage their behaviour, chat to them, distract them or whatever so they never really get that wild. Whereas with twins there's twice as much work and it's much more noticeable and also it's mich easier for things to get out of hand if you don't pay attention. I can see that if you've been out of the game a long while that might seem like "these kid are uniquely badly behaved" - but what does she expect your sister to do about it? Even supposing your sister is generous enough to overlook the implied judgement, how does your mum expect her to get over for visits regularly without the smallest and hardest-work members of the family? This seems like a short route to her losing a lot of contact with the kids. It was a bit like that for us with the inlaws, and I guess they thought they could just lick it uo when the kids were a bit less work, but by that time the window for bonding had kind of closed.

The main issue here is the OP’s mother.

I’d be a bit worried about 2 x 2 year olds who “sat nicely”. And I’m not keen on the idea that the oldest 2 are welcome because they’re on their screens all the time. An expression that would have meant absolutely nothing in her own childhood.

Does your Dsis call time on their running around, out doors is fine, indoors not so.

Does she help tidy up before she goes home or just gathered her DC and leave?

I have my 2 year old GC visit weekly with their parents and also look after them while their parents work, but the only time they run around in doors is if I'm chasing them.
They're given things to do and toys to play with.

If your DM is that tidy surely any mess is what I term "surface mess" and doesn't take more than a few minutes to tidy away.

If I was given the ultimatum I just wouldn’t be perusing a relationship with this person.

Your mum doesn’t sound very maternal or loving and the relationship sounds more hassle than it’s worth.

Most Grandparents have toys in their home for when the kids visit. Children of that age aren’t meant to sit still like they’re visiting the Queen at Buckingham Palace and a 5/6 YO shouldn’t just be sat on screens to keep quiet like that.

If I were DSIS I wouldn’t be visiting at all…

Your DM is getting older and doesn't cope well with 4 children including a pair of 2 years olds supervised/entertained by a single adult.
That isn't a character flaw, that's the reality.

If she progressed to banning them, I suppose there was some time when she was expressing it doesn't work for her.

Is your Dsis actively managing them (not by telling them off, but by keeping them occupied) or is she letting them lose to create havoc?

Your DM is entitled to have the visitors she wants at her house, but it's a surefire way to wreck the relationship you have with your child and grandchildren and wouldn't blame your sister at all for breaking ties with her.

RIDICULOUS expectations for 2yr old twins and a cruel way to treat her daughter and grandchildren.

First of all it's 4 children and no that's not what she's telling her – she's just telling her the 2yr olds aren't welcome.

Yeah your mum sounds selfish and extremely unpleasant. Toddlers are hard work. If they were really damaging her house I'd understand it a bit more but if they're just being regular toddlers then she's crackers.

DSis tidies everything before she leaves. She can't stop them running around all the time inside but does her best.

I can’t figure out what she wants- she says she doesn’t want the two-year-olds in her house, but she doesn’t want to visit them either because it’s too noisy. What is OP’s sister supposed to do with them? Chuck them in the bin?

DM is not unfair to ban the twins. It's her house, and she gets to say who is welcome and who is not.

She is very unfair to expect your sister to continue visiting, but with only 2 of her 4 children.

Maybe DSIS drops elder two at your Mums - however it sounds like she expects them to sit quietly on a device which isn’t my idea of a visit. Can she not meet up at the park, soft play etc - I can see how having all 4 would be manic but they don’t need to always meet at her house surely?

Her she finds it too much obviously.