to think DM is unfair to ban the twins from visiting?

[timetoban]

My sister has four children: an 6-year-old, a 5-year-old and 2-year-old twins.
The older two are easy visitors. They tend to sit quietly, chat a bit and spend a lot of time on their screens. The twins, however, are typical two-year-olds. They run around, make noise, have the occasional tantrum and create a bit of mess.
DM is very house-proud and likes everything neat, tidy and pristine.

She has become increasingly irritated by the twins whenever they visit. She complains that they don't sit nicely, don't behave properly and are too noisy. Personally, I think her expectations of two-year-olds are unrealistic.

The latest development is that she has told DSis that the twins are no longer welcome at her house. She says DSis can bring the older two, but not the younger ones.

The problem is that DSis's husband works long hours and isn't always available to stay home with the twins. So in practice, this means DSis often can't visit at all, or has to choose between seeing DM and staying with her younger children.

DM says it's her house and she's entitled to decide who comes into it. DSis feels hurt that two of her children have effectively been singled out and excluded.

As OP's mum obviously hates small children and both her adult children have small children, unless her daughters put their children into some sort of childcare, and there is no reason why they should do this, her mum will need to accept that her adult children can't visit her.

She can't cope with noise and mess so she is better being on her own.

There is also a happy medium between grandparents that 'take endless delight' in their small grandchildren and those who actively hate their toddler grandchildren. OP's mum is at the extreme end of grandparents who dislike their grandchildren.

If I was your sister then I would just not see her very often. I would just speak to her on the phone regularly. It is her house of course so she can have whoever she wants over but she cant dictate how your sister spends her time. If you wish to help your sister perhaps have the younger 2 for an hour a fortnight so she can pop over to your mums without them. If you aren't able to offer that support then leave it to your sister to work out.

I think someone who struggled in a sensory way with the toddlers but genuinely cared about their DC would be compromising by meeting at the park or something.

That said I think if your parent did a bad job of parenting then it's not realistic to expect them to do a complete 180 for grandchildren.

I agree that it is a bit silly to expect her to have changed her attitude towards children.

And even if it were a sensory thing (which it presumably isn’t) then going to the park is not a solution. Believe me if the sensory issue is set off by the pitch and volume of young children, going to an (albeit outdoor) area where there are many more of them would not help!

I don't know, I find the noise my kids make hard inside but the same noise is fine for me outside. If this was the case of a nice person with some sensory struggles then they'd at least be experimenting to see if something worked. This grandma just sounds like a rotten person to me.

If they are your own kids I imagine that could work. I couldn’t cope with it inside or out.

I think ‘rotten’ is a bit strong, she has just chosen not to want to spend time with twin toddlers

The rotten is because she's not willing to even try. I personally think that her DC are wasting their time here because you can give and give to someone else but if they aren't a nice person any giving won't change that.

She had tried and had realised she can’t handle it. Why put yourself through something time and again when it’s not working?

These families with mums like this make me so grateful for my own family, but sad that others have grown up with abusive parents (which the op seems to have completely skirted over, no doubt it’s been squashed down and down over the years) and then continue to actively want to have relationships with parents that may not abuse them in the same way as they did as children - but are still bloody awful.

When you love someone and care about someone you try different things. She won't consider meeting elsewhere. Even with the older ones she expects them to go on screens and be quiet. She doesn't give a toss about these people.

And when you know that she was abusive to her children during their childhoods… it just confirms that fundamentally the woman is unpleasant.

It is very messed up that both daughters want their children to have relationships with the person who abused them as children

I'm not usually a promoter of screens but it's probably better for them to spend time on YouTube kids than around a person like that.

She doesn’t like the noise and mess that children create. Plenty of people don’t. Even removing the issue of how she apparently treated her own kids, it’s okay not to want to be around a situation like this.

She wants to spend time with her adult daughters and it’s a shame that, as they clearly want to see their mother, this isn’t possible,

Sometimes there is no compromise.

Would you want to spend time with your mother if she “banned” your children from her home? And this isn’t a mother who’s said “, I’m struggling a bit with the mess of the twins, as much as love them, ok if maybe we meet at the park or I pop over to you instead”.

Nope - she went straight for “they’re banned”