Dd’s teacher suggesting I sit in on the lesson so Dd remembers what to do

[Stopwiththeicecreamsnow]

Dd recently started a new music lesson. She really enjoyed it at first, but has been struggling recently with understanding/remembering what to do for her homework.
She’s bright and motivated usually, but not keen to do this practice homework each week.
The teacher is very nice. I said to her that Dd had made a great effort but struggled to know what to do. She said they would work on it and maybe I could sit in on the lesson so I can remember what she needs to do too.
I’m ok to do this, but wondering if this is the right approach and think she probably just needs to go more slowly with Dd so she understands? I’m also worried I may not remember myself as I have so much to remember in my life already 😂
During her lesson, I generally use that time to sit in my car and catch up on work emails etc.

I went to an inner city primary school, in what is now considered a deprived area. There were 40 in my class. No bad behaviour.
All 40 of us peep peeped away on our recorders. The first 3 notes we learnt were a b c. Just one hand. Then we learnt with 2 hands. We learned where a b c were on a sheet of music. It was really easy. Then we learned the positions and notes for the other hand. And sharps. We played baa baa black sheep, which I'm sure you will agree is very easy. We also played Christmas carols. I learned the new world symphony for a concert. Better kids than me played the tenor recorder.
Then, I went to grammar school and did music for 3 years. I also studied a different instrument. I did art o level, not music. However, I was in the school choir and took part in several concerts.
I maintain that there's plenty of opportunities in the state system for children who are passionate about music

You’re way out of date, sadly.

Yup I think way out of date. My own failing state school had a huge amount of music. I learnt from 9 and I was able to join ensembles, orchestra and do gcse music. I was shocked when I went around our catchment secondary and no current gcse music students. At my daughters’ primary there are some county music lessons opportunities but no orchestral instruments and no real culture of music at all. I’ve moved one of mine to a private school and the music offering is jaw dropping in comparison. The difference is just night and day unfortunately between our local state and private but isn’t as big a gap to what I had access to growing up.

our state secondary has A level music and multiple music groups including an orchestra. Whereas the expensive local private school doesn’t do A level music or drama. It varies widely.

That’s great, but secondary is too late really. The kids playing in the orchestra in your local state school will still have had to have private 1-1 lessons outside of primary school, or perhaps from peri teachers but still paid for by parents.

Whereas when I was at primary I had free lessons in a group of 3 for 4 years. This simply doesn’t exist anymore.

I would argue your experience is not all that current. Just because you were taught recorder in primary school in what, the early 80s(?) does not mean that state primary children 40 years later all learn to read music and play an instrument in their class lessons.

It will be longer ago than that as the poster refers to O levels!

I did learn recorder in the 80s (but started with B A G; A B C makes no sense so I’d question how good the teaching was at that poster’s school!). But it wasn’t compulsory, and I don’t remember being taught how to read music in class - I learnt some in recorder class and the rest in music Saturday school.

I have a friend whose DC is currently at a (good) State primary. They don’t do recorder any more - it’s “xylophone” (actually sounds like they have a glockenspiel, so I doubt the quality of the music teaching there as well). And not taught to read music either (except by me!).

So that’s definitely changed. Seemed to be around the early 2000s from the kids I know going through schools at different times.

I don't see how you sitting in on the lesson is going to help in that case.

Your daughter doesn't understand what the teacher is saying and neither would you.

Could the teacher provide a link to the music as it's supposed to be played?

Yes. Sorry it was b a g. I can still play though. I can still read music. It's a shame the recorder died out, it was a simple instrument, easy to learn and a good stepping stone to other instruments.

I am putting gaps because I have been criticised for just using a new line for a new paragraph.

I learnt a string instrument. I can still remember the names of the strings, but nothing else.

Local primary schools teach glockenspiel to the whole class. The whole class also has ukulele lessons- different year. Some of the older kids do trombone, but I think that's music club. All schools do after school clubs to suit a wide range of interests.

At secondary, kids used to play violin and other instruments. All year 7s learn to play keyboard as a class. They can all read music, some better than others. There's a school orchestra, choir, guitar club, extra keyboard lessons/club for those who are interested. Some kids play brass instruments and drums. The occasional one plays the piano, they tend to be gifted musicians.

B, A, G is def the way to start recorder, so no issue with that! However, what I was a bit irked by in your post was the point that other people were in some kind of deficit for having left school unable to read music. Not everyone learns that at primary, and not everyone would remember it if they had.

Op isn't complaining, she is asking if this is usual and if it will realistically help. you clearly woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, maybe take it out on someone else? Op has hardly commit a crime by asking for advice about kids piano lessons

I learned B-A-G recorder in a class of over 40 at school, inner city primary. The idea that this level of music left most pupils able to read and process music independently as adults is for the birds. Most would have struggled to remember the few notes played in class lessons.

At that time at least some music every week was a part of standard schooling but it was singing and a few percussion instruments and did not necessitate formal reading of music - children learned “by rote” rather than by reading the music if sheet music was provided. Then as now a very small subset of children learned an instrument from a peripatetic teacher from yr 5.

Much as the handful of swimming lessons in yr 6 don’t teach swimming without a lot of extra coaching and practice from home, a term doing recorder on Friday afternoon or weekly hymn practice only gives a taste, not much actual learning but hopefully enough to foster a later enjoyment.

These subjects are the first to disappear in state schools, at my sons primary parent’s had to come in to teach any extras like this x it’s definitely no longer Normal

Strange. A previous poster criticised me for not knowing that music was part of a good all round education. Now it seems that I had a more rounded education than most. Yes, I did practise recorder at home, as did many of my friends.

However, kids still do music at secondary. They do learn instruments. Most schools have a school choir. Most schools provide the opportunity to learn an instrument. I thought music was part of the national curriculum. Our local secondary teaches a varied music curriculum. I will look it up and report back.

I am now wondering if mumsnetters think that the piano represents some sort of elitism that they want their kids to be part of. Tbh it was beyond my capabilities. But that's OK too

Hi OP
i think it is not unusual for 7 years old beginners to not remember how to practice after lessons. And not unusual to not want to practice.

As several others mentioned, use your phone to record examples of the practice notes means. So much easier to understand the practice instruction when you can watch exactly what is meant.

Another great recommendation above is to get your DD to practice when you get home while it is still fresh in their heads.

Try make it fun, maybe let’s check if mom’s recording make sense…. Get her to show you what she learned.

Little and often is best way to practice and build it up. If you got her to do 5-10 mins every day she will progress. Then increase the time over time.
My DDs used to practice 5 days per week. And not that willingly!! There were strops and tears at times. But eventually it became habit. I think every day is better as they often were negotiating which days to skip practice.

Participate in her practice. Help make it fun. Make a game out of what to practice today. Give her attention and positive reinforcement.

Music education is a gift for life. It is difficult at the start. Practice is absolutely essential to progress.

Lots of studies to show music helps with brain development and it also helps with academics. It also builds resilience and discipline. There are so many benefits beyond just being able to play an instrument.
It gets a lot more enjoyable once progress is made. And progress is only made with frequent practice.

Stick with it unless your DD really isn’t enjoying it at all. Piano is a great base for any other instrument. I would give it at least a year before switching instrument.

My DDs played music for years, and while I had some music education I couldn’t read music very well and just had the basics of a different instrument. So I was in a fairly similar situation to you.

@HarshbutTrue2 what is your point exactly?

It has always been the case that you need 1-1 (or perhaps 1-2 or 1-3) lessons to learn any instrument beyond the most basic degree of proficiency.

Whole class recorder lessons are excellent for teaching the basics and introducing kids to reading music but even these don’t happen anymore in the way they used to. You seem to be completely out of touch with music teaching in primary schools - which is key because that is the best age to start most instruments. When I was at primary in the 1990s we had whole class recorder teaching weekly from year 3 to year 6, such that after 4 years the whole class was pretty good. Nowadays the approach is for the entire class to learn recorder for 1 term, then 2 terms of nothing, then the next year have a term of violin, then the next year a term of cornet. This is nothing more than the most basic introduction to those instruments - no opportunity to build on skills or knowledge - and that’s in a well-funded outstanding state school.

Even in the 90s, and very much the case now, a child needs private lessons to learn an instrument, so really what happens in school is neither here nor there. It’s a massive shame that only those with parents who can afford it get this opportunity. Kids whose parents can afford it are very lucky. Parents who want to give their kids the chance to learn should be applauded, not looked down on in some kind of reverse snobbery.

If a parent doesn’t play themselves they might not realise how much they need to support their child with their learning. The fact that a child does need the support doesn’t mean they shouldn’t learn, or aren’t suited to it, or that they’re living out their parents’ dream or however else you want to characterise it. I have no idea why you’ve attacked the OP so much for just asking a simple question.

No one criticised you.

You said

What is the point of these lessons?

And you called my answer "snobby". Loads of posters have shared their own reasons for doing music lessons. But now you're throwing around accusations of elitism. (Despite benefiting from a grammar school education that included music yourself)

What's your issue?

at 7 I would be expecting them to listen to the teacher/coach and be able to rely what’s happening in the lesson and anything they have been told to work on.

Totally unrealistic expectations in the context of learning an instrument.

I was asking op what the point was. Not music in general. Op child isn't passionate. Op doesn't want to support. Therefore, in my opinion, there is no point in continuing.

Op seems to have disappeared. She hasn't given a reason why her daughter is doing piano lessons - which is a pretty good place to begin the discussion. What exactly is OP hoping to achieve?

What exactly do you mean by "passionate"? Very few children are completely obsessed with music and it's usually a symptom of autism or other ND.

My DD was grade 8 on two instruments and grade 5 on the third aged 10, but I find calling children being "passionate" about music a bit pretentious tbh.

Learning an instrument is hard work in any case, whether you're "passionate" or not.

The ‘passionate’ part comes later for most young children and music.

Practice is a slog, especially for beginners.

Children need help and encouragement to stick with it, as it is not easy.

It is an activity that needs time before it becomes a passion.

But true, if parents not willing to support and encourage the child with good practice habits, it is unlikely they will make much progress unless the child is particularly motivated.

It is very likely that OP was not yet aware of the need for parental support around practice before she posted. I didn’t either until my children started music.

I thought my experience of learning music was normal. Several posters claim that they can't read music etc.
This is what my local schools teach: they are good state schools. Not outstanding. Not elite.

Reception to year 4:
Sparkyard music curriculum (whatever that is)
Raps, chants and songs. Harvest festival and Chris carol performances. Nativity for reception children.

Ks2. Summer term production. Parents attend, as they do for Christmas and harvest festival. Pupils study a musician of the month; including Annie Lennox , Bessie Smith- jazz age; kishori Arionkar- Indian music.
They learn musical vocabulary and notation.
In year 2, they learn to play the glockenspiel. Year 3, ukelele.They have musical workshops with visiting musicians.

They also perform a keyboard assembly for parents - year 4.
Extra curricular: keyboard lessons; theatre trips and The Big Sing. The school choir often takes part in events with other schools. There are also extra curricular lessons available for ukulele.

Year 5. Percussion and producing sound effects for a video. (Obviously something I never covered)
Year 5. FAME lessons for violin, coronet and flute. Plus further small group tuition.
Studying Peer Gynt - musical vocabulary and class tuition of ukulele. Reading TAB and chord boxes.

Year 6. Ww2 music and songs. ( that ties in nicely with history) violin and instruments of the orchestra.

Prokoviev, saint- sans and John Williams.
( I remember doing carnival of the animals and Peter and the wolf. Loved it)
Year 6 also do composition and group and individual performances. They do samba music -rhythm and pulse. And create an end of year performance for parents. They also do musical assemblies. Plus Pupils Got Talent Competition. They do a Christmas carol performance at a local old people's home.

Extra curricular: orchestra. Brass band. Guitar. Percussion ensemble. Concerts and carol services.

I maintain that kids today get a well rounded musical experience in school. There's plenty of extra curricular opportunities for those who are interested.
I don't understand why parents can't read music. Kids today are doing what I did, but their parents didn't. It makes no sense that the curriculum disappeared for several years.

I have sat through countless assemblies, carol concerts, school plays, sports days. Yet, OP doesn't want to sit in a piano lesson.

Congratulations for having spent so much time supporting your own children. I'm sorry that you have such a dim view of the OP's position. I have parents like this, and as a mum myself, I've also found the time that my children were being taught by someone else valuable for catching up with my own stuff, or just switching off for 25 precious minutes. That said, I think it would be worth OP sitting in on one or two.

Re the musical activities of the school you cite, that sounds amazing. I've been a peri in quite a few, and this is NOT standard.

The child should only be learning at a pace they understand and if she’s coming out non understanding then maybe the class isn’t for here at this time

:)))) Good luck!