AIBU to expect boys in ladies' changing rooms not to stare?

[MoreNewThings]

I’m prepared to be told I’m over-reacting, unreasonable, etc.

Should mothers who bring their sons into a female changing room teach their boys not to stare at the women in there?

Scenario is a small-ish sports centre. There’s one changing room per sex, for all sports except swimming. One mother is there every week with two boys, helping them get changed for their sport. The younger one looks about 7, so probably needs the help. The older boy is about 9 or 10, and doesn’t need help. I get why she brings him in to the ladies. But he stares at the two adult women who are usually getting changed at the same time. I find it disconcerting, even though he’s only a kid. There are often little girls there too after their class, but it’s just the adult women he seems to stare at.

Today it was just the older boy there, but she still brought him into the female room even though he didn’t need help. The other woman tried to go slightly round the corner, and he shifted around so he could still see her. Mother was on her phone and oblivious.

Then another boy about 8 came in, with mother and sisters. He just sat and stared at me the whole time. I was pissed off by this point and gave him my evil glare but he kept staring.

I’m not sure why it makes me uncomfortable as they are only kids, but they are male kids having a good ogle at the adult female form, and no-one seems to be explaining that staring is rude. Or that as males in a female space they should be as unobtrusive as possible.

So the AIBU is, should the mothers teach the boys not to ogle women? In addition, should I speak to the mothers? And what would I say?

YABU - get over yourself, they’re just kids.

YANBU - yes, the mothers should be teaching their sons to respect women’s boundaries.

Regarding ogling - I think you could feel ogled regardless of intent, but I'm not sure the average 10-year-old would be able to be said to be ogling. Although these days, hearing how young children often are when they're first exposed to porn etc, who knows? Perhaps he was knowingly ogling.

Yanbu.

Older than 8 and still needing help changing would to me mean use the disabled changing.

I think boys or girls they should be taught it's rude to stare from a young age.

Take it up with the management op.
And maybe stick up some "It's rude to stare" signs next time you're in the changing room. If parents aren't teaching maybe they'll read the social rule they've not been taught. 🤦 Worth a try.

I go to a gym with male, female and family changing rooms. We used to use the family one when DD was very young and we would go swimming together with DH. The family room isn’t great, it’s tiny, and for some reason it’s also unbearably hot.

I was in the female changing room quite recently and experienced the same as others have described here: a female adult with boys in the female changing room. The youngest boy was about two years old, and I had no concern whatsoever about him being there, especially as I know the family room can become very busy at the weekend. However, the older boy was a at least 11 (he had pale skin and dark hair, and very noticeable leg hair). He was staring intently at all of the women in the room, and I felt very uncomfortable. If there was a reason why he couldn’t change alone, the family room was there, albeit potentially busy.

Signs on the changing room doors state that boys are not allowed in the female changing room after the age of eight, although I don’t know how strict the gym is about this.

As the parent of an 11 year-old DD, I don’t want her to experience this either, and she usually heads for one of the few corner cubicles if a boy is present, with the exception of young toddlers,

Family rooms, or individual cubicles for family groups, are surely the answer here. Nobody should be forced to share a single-sex space, with the exception of babies and toddlers.

My son would've been mortified to be in there with naked women even at 8. We just stuck to pools with mixed family sized changing rooms when the kids were little.

How did you decide 7 years old was obviously the cut off point?

I would call him and his mother out. It is quite possible at 9/10 a girl from his class at school, who is going through pubity, could also be in the changing room.

8 and over is quite the normal cut off.

I’m also not happy about the mum using her phone in the change room. I’m not in the UK but there are signs in swimming pool and gym change rooms that phones must not be used or sometimes the sign says phones must be kept in bags.

I think most boys at that age would be very embarrassed to be in the ladies changing room.

I remember this happening when I was a David Lloyd member. So uncomfortable. No cubicles. No family area. No room near showers to get dressed. A male family member said the same thing happened in the men’s and he sometimes left without showering as there were little girls in there and the whole set up felt inappropriate and exposing adults to the risk of accusations.

as a parent myself now, I can no longer afford David Lloyd (!) and just use the family changing village at a local council place. I would have struggled with my ADHD son changing on his own at 8. He needed a few more years to master clothes, lockers, sorting himself out in general. There are now campaigns against these changing villages due to incidents of voyeurs and assaults but they solve the issue of negotiating this tricky time when they are really
too old to be in a single sex area of the wrong gender but not mature enough to sort themselves out in a timely way in the correct gender area.

At 8, they are too old to be in the women’s changing room. The very changing room that 8 year old girls from their class would be using. It is completely inappropriate to expect any girls to feel comfortable doing sport or going swimming if they know they might have to be naked in front of boys their age. It is too old.

Those boys need to go into the men’s. It has nothing to do with how innocent or sexualised those boys are and has everything to do with the comfort of women and girls in their own damn changing room.

How about: "Excuse me, your son really shouldn't be in here at all, but if you insist on the intrusion, you need to keep him by you and teach him not to stare at women undressing."

@Snoozycatsleeping and anyone else who needs to bring an overage child into the changing rooms of the opposite sex: it is quite possible to change someone with a large towel/wrap at the side of the pool just like you would do on the beach.

Do you have a voice? Why not use it?

Because I am a man. Every time I've gone into men's changing rooms, there are old men just walking around naked.

How is that an acceptable environment for children to be in unaccompanied?

There are usually signs up. Ours has signs saying children over 8 need to go into their own sex changing room I think.

Boys looking at women = not acceptable.

Men looking at boys = OK

What about an 8 year old in a wheel chair or an 8 year old down syndrome lad? It's a bloody minefield isn't it.

That isn’t the only reason why the OP or any other women feel uncomfortable though. For example it wouldn’t be unreasonable to feel uncomfortable as a woman changing in front of a gay man. Women are allowed to expect for their spaces to accommodate social norms. I wouldn’t get changed in front of a nephew of that age. Imagine an 8 year old girl being in there with a classmate.

And in female changing rooms, there are naked women? It's a changing room. Being naked is part of that, and often older people (like very young people) have little embarrassment about nudity. As long as they're not doing anything weird or perverted, like ogling the boys, I don't see what's wrong with that?

Hey, I agree, Im just curious to the various ages being thrown out, how do we decide what age is inappropriate? Id think the best way is when they are capable of dressing themselves but then they'd have to be alone with random naked men. Is the privacy of woman from the gaze of pre pubescent boys more important than potentially letting pre pubescent boys being abused by a peadophile taking advantage of the situation.l?

Ex leisure centre worker here. In my experience, people don’t wander around naked in the changing rooms.

Most British people haven't got that in them to say that. They would rather post on Mumsnet about it.

You think ? Do your due diligence before you post next time or don't bother.