AIBU to expect boys in ladies' changing rooms not to stare?

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I’m prepared to be told I’m over-reacting, unreasonable, etc.

Should mothers who bring their sons into a female changing room teach their boys not to stare at the women in there?

Scenario is a small-ish sports centre. There’s one changing room per sex, for all sports except swimming. One mother is there every week with two boys, helping them get changed for their sport. The younger one looks about 7, so probably needs the help. The older boy is about 9 or 10, and doesn’t need help. I get why she brings him in to the ladies. But he stares at the two adult women who are usually getting changed at the same time. I find it disconcerting, even though he’s only a kid. There are often little girls there too after their class, but it’s just the adult women he seems to stare at.

Today it was just the older boy there, but she still brought him into the female room even though he didn’t need help. The other woman tried to go slightly round the corner, and he shifted around so he could still see her. Mother was on her phone and oblivious.

Then another boy about 8 came in, with mother and sisters. He just sat and stared at me the whole time. I was pissed off by this point and gave him my evil glare but he kept staring.

I’m not sure why it makes me uncomfortable as they are only kids, but they are male kids having a good ogle at the adult female form, and no-one seems to be explaining that staring is rude. Or that as males in a female space they should be as unobtrusive as possible.

So the AIBU is, should the mothers teach the boys not to ogle women? In addition, should I speak to the mothers? And what would I say?

YABU - get over yourself, they’re just kids.

YANBU - yes, the mothers should be teaching their sons to respect women’s boundaries.

@ilovesooty How do you know that men's changing rooms are full of perverts?

Men walking around naked in changing rooms, where children may be present, are perverts by definition...

No-one is walking around naked here. This isn't swimming, the changing rooms are for 'dry' activities and if someone choose to have a shower afterwards, there is a secluded space and cubicles for that. This is just people taking off their usual clothes and changing into sports gear. For women, no further than bra and pants, and no need for men or boys to go beyond pants unless they choose to have a shower after, which is secluded from the general changing area.

*Edited for typos

You’re not being unreasonable. I have two sons and I would not do that once I’ve the age of 6 max and will keep them in a corner not facing anyone if possible.
My boys are older and I have always taken them to cubicles to get changed after swimming when they were younger.

How do you know what goes on in men's changing rooms?

My grandson went into the men’s changing room on his own when he turned 8. Why does yours “obviously“ need to come in with you?

I do think the gym should have a policy but it is definitely on the parents to teach the boys not to stare. I had this the spa of a posh hotel. Grandmother and a boy of probably nine or so. He was already changed and just sat there staring, grandmother appeared oblivious.

YANBU but changing rooms need to be sep cubicles type arrangement as in swimming pools.

There's no need for a boy over 7 (old enough to strip, dry, and dress unaided) to be in the women's changing room.

When my son was that age, if there were no family changing areas then I sent him into the men's and like a pp said, loitered at the doorway and called out to him while he was changing, to make sure he was alright. I also would, at times, just have him wrap a towel around his waist and wear his togs home if we were driving, or walking in summer (we're in NZ).

Girls of a similar age to 8+ boys don't want to be naked around their male peers, and they shouldn't have to be. It's inappropriate. And boys of 9 or 10 can definitely 'ogle'. They may not be teenagers yet, but some of them will already be developing a nascent sexual interest.

I would say something to the boys' mums. While being prepared for them to freak out at me. But I'd say it anyway. I'd try to be very careful, tentative, nice - but not expecting that to change the expected reaction from them.

Where I swim no children of the opposite sex are allowed in the changing rooms over 8 years old. There are completely separate family changing rooms available as well though.

8 is way too old, an 8 year old shouldn’t need help, unless special needs. I live in Aus where children are always in and out of swimmers and in swim clubs and by 6/7 they are generally managing well. I would check that caps, goggles, socks etc were all present once my son emerged but he and his friends were largely independent.

I suppose they all grew up with swimming in their own pools, the ocean and school pools so were used to getting changed, but it’s not fair to girls to have boys in their spaces.

She says he has special needs. That’ll be the “obviously.”

They really should be using a family changing room or disabled toilets though.

Over 7s should not be in the other sexes changing room.

Can you have a word with their mother? She probably doesn't want them alone in a male changing room in case of paedos. Or is there cubicles that can be used?

When my son was that age, if there were no family changing areas then I sent him into the men's and like a pp said, loitered at the doorway and called out to him while he was changing, to make sure he was alright

I would do this too! My son decided at 5 years that he wanted to only go to the men’s toilet when out and about - he has older sisters and my DH said he was wanting to be in his own single sex space. Sometimes we’d be out and he’d want to do a poo. He was ok with wiping but would take bloody ages. Once or twice friend’s mums would send their husbands in to make sure he was ok, he always was.

No way. They should have family changing areas. Or even mixed changing, but closed cubicles.
I do not think this is any good for a 9 year old.

Thank you all. I'm going to ask the Sports Centre about their policy, and also determine the ages of the two boys in my class, which should be relatively easy as the younger boy is very chatty. This will inform my next moves. The other child will be harder to deal with as I'm unsure of his age and will likely involve a conversation with the mother. I'm not so bothered about this though, as her children are doing a completely different class and I don't have a reason to keep her onside.

Still curious to know opinions over the word ogling - is it the starer's intent or the subject's feeling?

I'd speak to reception and see if they can put up a sign about using the correct sex changing rooms once over a certain age.

It's not swimming so 8 year old boys should be fine to go in and change clothes and come out. I'm not sure what help would be needed.

I think just turned 8 can still feel quite young but by 9 it doesn't matter what help a boy needs, you need to seek an alternative solution if he can't go in the mens. Girls of that age shouldn't be expected to share changing space with boys and teaching boys to respect women's spaces is a really important part of parenting.

I have a (pretty young for his age and with SEN) 10 year old. He would be mortified at using the women's changing rooms or toilets. My daughter would be mortified to have a boy of that age in her toilet. Like many parents, we used the approach of building up independence so using the loos or changing room in really safe spaces and then working up gradually to the ones that worried me most like service stations. The situation you are describing is an ideal one for sending both boys in to the mens together to learn.

I go to a gym which has men’s, ladies and a family changing room.

Children over 7 have to go in their own gender or in the family one. Under 7 they have to go in the family one.
So I have never encountered a boy in there of any age.

It’s strict but it works

I hate this and once they are staring they are too old to be there. Speak to the management

Ogling - I'd see this as a word with intent. A pervy 40 year old, definitely. A 2 year old, definitely not. I think at 10 ish I know why you are using it but I'd avoid, it feels more uncomfortable but they don't have the same awareness of inappropriateness or harm as an adult, it's much closer to curiosity.

Mine are not long turned 7 and 9 and they can get themselves changed so I would have thought they could go into the men’s together and meet their mum once they were done. If she’s not comfortable with them being out of sight she should absolutely be telling them not to stare!

This is a worry of mine. At the moment it's okay, as my son is only six so I can take him in to the female changing room but I don't know what I'll do in a year or two. There is a disabled changing room, just one, that often seems to be in use. I suppose I will have to get my husband to come with us but that's not always practical.
We used to have individual cubicles at the leisure centre where we used to live which was much better.

9 and 10 is too old. Most places 6 is the limit. Do they not have a family changing area?

This shouldn't be allowed.
I thought most sports/pool facilities had an age of 7 cut off ... roughly no older than a KS1 child.