IVF dilemma. Thinking of going through IVF forThe purpose of gender selection.

[VS1987]

We have 2 boys (5 and 7) with growth issues, candidates for growth hormone therapy. It’s been the source of constant stress and anxiety
them being under 5 percentile constantly. Otherwise completely healthy and happy children.
Had 2 miscarriages (also boys) before them, but all the 4 pregnancies happened on the 1st try.
However, I always wanted a bigger family and I still have a void of being a girl mom and have a daughter.
I’m sure we could get pregnant again, but I can’t fathom to go again through this growth problems and stress around it, having a boy. In my head hight with girls it’s not as much of an issue, I am petite myself and my husband is average height. He only agrees to have another child through IVF juts To make sure it’s a girl this time. I agree the whole point of having another child is having a daughter.
I guess I’m trying to find justification for it, but having fears of IVF and moral dilemma. After hearing the both sides: One is that it’s unethical to select the gender and IVF is against nature bla bla bla. And even that IVF children somehow more at risk and not as good as “natural” which is ridiculous but makes me anxious. And on the other side are the parents who can’t conceive and any child would be a blessing for them - I feel bad asking on their forums With all that does anyone has any thought if there are other aspects of it? How bad is IVF for the health of both a mother and a child? I’ve been ruminating around it for weeks before writing here.
Please no insults. But every opinion or argument is valid. Thanks

to avoid health issues OP specifically says they are healthy and happy kids. Just short.

Tell me more about being a "girl mom" and why you think you need to be one?

Do they actually have a specific health condition leading to abnormal growth, or are they just short? With one average and one short parent being small sounds normal. Both my kids are low centiles for the same reason. No one has ever mentioned growth issues or potential hormone treatment. 5th centile generally isn't an issue.

If you did have a girl they would likely be proportionally even shorter. I think its really bizarre to consider gender selection for that reason and rather offensive to your current children.

@VS1987

I disagree with people giving you a hard time - you are perfectly justified to feel the way you feel.
And I am sorry for your boys - society js indeed unfair on shorter men, and of course you want to do all you can to help them.

On that - I’d not wait and got the ball rolling with medication as soon as possible.

I have friends who had a child with growth hormones issues - and they took a while to decide to use the medication and as a result - the overall impact was less than it could have been.

As to having a 3rd child with IVF - you’ll need to do it in another country if you want to select for sex. Unless the medical issues with your boys may justify it here - talk to the clinic - see what is possible.

I think, given your situation - it’s a perfectly valid choice to make. If you have healthy female embryos - and already have 2 boys - nothing is wrong to wanting to have a daughter, if you already have 2 sons. (even if the medical issues didn’t exist)

Some people get on some high moral horse about IVF - bot sure why.

Girls are all different just like boys, even if you have a girl there is no guarantee she will be what you imagined, I have 4 daughters all of them are very different to the "girl" stereotype, it's also not legal to do gender selection here, because like you said it is morally wrong

Just out of curiosity, if you created any male embryos from ivf, what would you do with them? Have them destroyed as not good enough?

I was desperate for a girl, absolutely desperate. I don’t think I’d have gone down the route of IVF, although I also don’t think I’d have tried to get pregnant a second time if I’d known it was a boy, which is probably worse in a way. So YANBU - you’d need to go abroad, though.

I agree the whole point of having another child is having a daughter.

That says it all, and is why you shouldn't go ahead.

But you're kidding yourself if you think a tiny girl won't be commented on. She absolutely will. My little sister was below 0% on the percentiles, she's tiny. It got mentioned ALL THE TIME. She's still a small adult, it is a drain. For her, it was a genetic glitch, an issue that couldn't be predicted. That isn't the case for you.

You can argue that small men may be more disadvantaged, and some people might find a tiny woman preferable, but I'm not sure they're the type of people you'd choose to associate your daughter with... But the bigger issue is that your sons are here. You have to help them cope because they exist. You'd be choosing to have a daughter with the knowledge you've got.

I'd imagine you've already researched where it's legal to gender select; so I won't go down that line of questioning, but there's a good reason not many places offer it.

Don't have another child. Focus on the ones you have; and supporting them. Get therapy to talk about your wishes for a daughter, because if you feel so strongly about it that you're willing to risk her having health issues you now know about; and pay for gender selection IVF, you're almost certain to have issues down the line if you do have a girl, where you feel either let down or you absolutely smother her and she pushes you away.

That's if it's successful. I only know of two people who have done this, both to have girls, and neither has a daughter. They both had pregnancies, one had several, but there wasn't a happy ending for either of them.

5 people in every hundred have to be on or below the fifth centile. That's just how it works.
First question for you - do your boys have an underlying health issue causing growth hormone deficiency? If so, you need to understand what that means in terms of their future needs and potential risk to future siblings. Or are they healthy but happen to be short? Sounds very likely given your and your husband's height.
Second question - do you want another child? Knowing that even with IVF there are no guarantees - you could still have a child with significant genetic issues or acquired health issues. In order to have another child I think you need to want that child no matter what.
And finally - I view IVF as a treatment. So it can be used to treat fertility issues or to address genetic illnesses via pre implantation diagnosis. If there is no medical issue to address I would.be a lot less comfortable with it.

You sound ungrateful. DH and I have been trying for YEARS and wish to have even one child!!!!!! For some perspective!

Any extremes are commnetes on. Very tall kids get just as many comments as short kids.

My teen dc best friend is way under average height for a boy. Its took a long time for him to learn to shrug off other people's comments. He practised some lines to respond ro comments. His attitude is that he doesnt have a probelm with his height then why should anyone else.

Unless the cause of your boys’ growth problem is a sex linked genetic issue, then it’s unethical and sexist to select for a girl.

Go for it @VS1987 and very good luck

Gender selection is illegal in the UK.

"Small men are disregarded a lot in this world if we talk objectively." - you're not talking objectively, and you don't speak for anyone but yourself. You clearly have an issue with short men. Which rather raises the question of why you didn't have children with a taller man but there we go.

The last PM was about 5ft 5. The current one is about 5ft 8. The mayor of London is about 5ft 6. Tom Cruise is one of Hollywoods biggest ever stars (yes he's mental but you can't deny he's bankable). Messi is 5ft 7.

IVF has around a 25% success rate and costs thousands. I'd suggest you could give your sons amazing life experiences for the money that you are proposing shelling out for a very slim chance of what you want.

Small men do absolutely fine. You’re being ridiculous and projecting insecurities.

Have any of you had genetic testing to see if you can find out what’s going on with your DS’?

I would advise you do this before thinking of IVF as some genetic variations can affect boys and girls in different ways.

You’re talking about exceptional men there, though. And Google reckons Sunsk is 5’7, which is below average height but not remarkably so.

Agreed. Disgusting attitude IMO.

My son has got a friend who is very very short- people think she's 8 rather than twelve. She does get teased all the time is school being referred to as "Playmobil". So yes, girls get picked on too.

But I'm more curious about why you want a girl.. take me for ex; I was a football girl who loved climbing trees and refused to wear dresses or be cute. My brother was very calm and preferred to read and play the violin. Luckily our parents let us be who we were and didn't try to impose any gender typical personalities. So what if you get a girl who is not who you would like her to be?

Also, and I say this as a mum to two boys; make sure you have the time for them. Growing up one of them might need more support, you never know. Try to be a good mum to the kids you already have instead of dreaming about a doll.

I don’t think it’s unethical to use gender selection. To me, it is unethical to treat living foetuses or children differently based on sex, but not to select a gender you want before implantation. I can’t really see what’s unethical about it tbh (in the social context of the UK/West and this specific situation).

Loads of shorter men around me who have good jobs, families, hobbies. No need to pity the boys and think about them being “disregarded”

This is worse than I thought. You find small boys inferior, but not small girls. You are adding to height stigma that boys face. You're being shallow and playing God.

Also it sounds like you don't know the cause of their short stature (nutrition, genetics etc.) - but they don't sound abnormally small, considering you're small yourself.

Ehm what difference does it make if it is in the West? Do you just assume that gender selection in the East is 'unethical' because their reasons for wanting a boy or a girl are 'bad' while Western mothers' reasonings are 'normal'?

You won’t be the first or the last person to do this based on gender. The health side of things would bother me though. If both parents are producing children with health issues, should you continue?