IVF dilemma. Thinking of going through IVF forThe purpose of gender selection.

[VS1987]

We have 2 boys (5 and 7) with growth issues, candidates for growth hormone therapy. It’s been the source of constant stress and anxiety
them being under 5 percentile constantly. Otherwise completely healthy and happy children.
Had 2 miscarriages (also boys) before them, but all the 4 pregnancies happened on the 1st try.
However, I always wanted a bigger family and I still have a void of being a girl mom and have a daughter.
I’m sure we could get pregnant again, but I can’t fathom to go again through this growth problems and stress around it, having a boy. In my head hight with girls it’s not as much of an issue, I am petite myself and my husband is average height. He only agrees to have another child through IVF juts To make sure it’s a girl this time. I agree the whole point of having another child is having a daughter.
I guess I’m trying to find justification for it, but having fears of IVF and moral dilemma. After hearing the both sides: One is that it’s unethical to select the gender and IVF is against nature bla bla bla. And even that IVF children somehow more at risk and not as good as “natural” which is ridiculous but makes me anxious. And on the other side are the parents who can’t conceive and any child would be a blessing for them - I feel bad asking on their forums With all that does anyone has any thought if there are other aspects of it? How bad is IVF for the health of both a mother and a child? I’ve been ruminating around it for weeks before writing here.
Please no insults. But every opinion or argument is valid. Thanks

I find the whole notion of gender selection - and destroying male embryos - utterly repulsive.
If having another boy is such anathema to you, you really shouldn't be considering another baby.

I agree ugly girls shouldn’t be judged, neither should be short men.
but the reality is that they are all judged. And intellect doesn’t always help. Charisma -yes, but no one guarantees that either.

I find the concept of ‘family balancing’ really uncomfortable.

A google search tells me there are also clinics in the US where people try to select EYE COLOUR via IVF. What is the world coming to?

If you want a third child for the person they might become it sounds like you would quite likely be able to achieve it. To deliberately only have a child of a certain sex doesn’t feel right to me.

IVF as a process can be very stressful but is relative to your starting point.

Why are you assuming that a daughter wouldn't have the exact same issues, causing the exact same level of stress for you?

In your mind is it ok for a female baby to be under medical supervision for failure to thrive because you believe it is more socially acceptable to be a short woman than a short man later in life?

I'm struggling to understand how another baby, of either sex, is a good idea given how much your current children need you.

So are we assuming your daughter will be a great beauty?
what if she isn’t?
god forbid she may have to be judged on being clever and funny and kind

no my son isn’t judged, I brought him up to believe he can be anything

kids will pick on anything, most of us grow out of that, unlike your husband

I really don’t understand gender disappointment once you have your children
I really wanted girls, as one of 3 girls, went to an all girls school. Girls are definitely favoured in my family and they obviously hoped I was having a girl. My dad is one of 6 boys and that experience shaped him 😂
but I have 3 sons, and I just can’t imagine why I ‘need’ a girl. They are just people, amazing young men who I adore. I don’t imagine or yearn for this other experience I’ve missed out on.
my parents and sisters equally love and enjoy my boys. They got a granddaughter and she is also wonderful, beautiful, extremely bright and very girly. I love her as much as my boys because she is a person, she isn’t there to give anyone what they want a child to be.

i really don’t get it

I'm 4 ft 11 and my partner is 5ft 8 on a good day. I have a daughter who will be petite but my god I won't that define her. Small or tall there are so much more to a person.

I think you're getting a hard time, OP, because you were quite unclear in your first post, but your latest posts have clarified.

If they dropped from around 29th centile to 2 or 3 then yes I can see why there was concern and that it must be very stressful for you. I do agree though, that selecting sex through IVF won't solve your problems, because you absolutely won't be able to guarantee that a daughter won't have the same growth and feeding concerns. Not to mention it is unethical.

My son has growth hormone injections (and has cerebral palsy) so I do understand what it's like. However from what you say they have had their growth hormone tested and it is not deficient.

At this point I would try to focus on all the many good points, taking comfort in the fact that they're happy and healthy and thriving in every other way. Plus they will be regularly monitored to ensure that any future issues will be found and treated where possible. Completely drop the idea of IVF.

Try to enjoy your lovely boys and put less pressure on yourself.

I think she's getting a hard time because, despite the fact that (1) her sons have lots of incredibly concerning things going on with their development, as she has subsequently mentioned, including an alarmingly low calorific intake and 'failure to thrive', she chose to focus only on their eventual height in her OP, and only then in order to say that this is less of an issue for a girl, in order to justify wanting to have sex-selective IVF and (2) because nothing whatsoever that she has said has indicated that any subsequent children, of either sex, that she may have, will not suffer from a similar condition. Nothing has indicated it's a male-only disorder.

Many of the OP's subsequent posts have gone into the detail of how worrying and stressful it is parenting her sons. Adding another child will only exacerbate stress levels, and there is no guarantee that a third child, even the daughter the OP so patently wants, will not have exactly the same health problems.

I very much sympathise with the difficulties of parenting children with health problems, but I think the OP is worryingly deluded in her 'logic' for wanting sex-selective IVF to guarantee a daughter.

That's basically what I said but in different words so we're in agreement?

Nope I understood you the first time(s) you explained. You're just awful and have no concept of gratitude. You are lucky to have healthy children. Your short boys are healthy. Having picky eaters is just that - it's not a health condition.

Don't have more kids, focus on loving the ones already with you

Don't rule out neurodevelopmental issues just because the speech delay resolved. My autistic son has always been hugely ahead in terms of speech.

At age 5 and 7 it is common for high masking autistic children to go under the radar. There's a huge developmental leap around age 7-9 when autistic characteristics often become more obvious. Same for early teens especially with transfer to high school.

Eating issues (without physical cause) are often linked to anxiety or sensory needs. These would be lilely far worse with a new baby in the house. Perhaps counselling would also help your own level of anxiety impacting eating.

Thank you so much for these thoughts! I haven’t heard of later masking of it, only in girls.
We haven’t got back to those thoughts, since speech has resolved. I’ll beat myself to get back to that concern again sooner than later.
I agree it has been a lot of anxiety because of early eating problems that are now still there like a vicious circle creating more anxiety around eating.

Eye colour!? Who could even care less?

Intelligent autistic children are often high masking. There's a big push currently to recognise how autism can often present in girls with high masking. Which is good that more girls are getting diagnosed. But people seem to now forget that boys can have equally high masking profiles.

Are there any sensory or sleep issues or similar? Any family history of ND?

It might also be worth looking into the demand avoidant profile of autism. ADHD can also lead to eating issues.

No, I don't think it can be said to be a "clinical fact" - latest research has found that any small differences previously noted likely reflect parental or pregnancy factors as opposed to the IVF process itself (e.g. IVF mothers are older on average, multiple pregnancies being more common, underlying fertility issues in the parents that might relate to genetic conditions etc). In short, the differences seen (if any), are correlational not causational.

this is what I thought too, my guess would be the tests were done in America.
It seems very medicalised, like I said in a previous response someone has to be at every point on the centile chart, unless there's a reason to be particularly concerned or there are other health issues, why would it need so much investigation and treating.

Hi
i I haven’t read through all the posts and unsure whether this charity has been mentioned before.
in the Uk there is a charity called the child growth foundation and they support child and families with rare growth conditions 😊

Loads of people go to northern cyprus for this. I'd say go for it, ivf isn't THAT bad.

Depends entirely on your perspective and whether it worked for you
I went through it twice. My life was ruled by the calendar and the clock for a couple of months. My hormones were all over the place. It didn't work either time and just caused heartbreak each time
Not exactly what I'd call not bad
No one is going to put themselves through that for it not to work and describe it as not that bad

setting aside the sex selection and height issues- it seems you have 2 healthy active sons with no medical issues
and you describe a lot of anxiety around food, a lot of negotiation and bargaining

has anyone ever suggested that this is all behavioural and your sons have learnt that the best way to get your attention -to the point where your whole family revolves around 'getting them to eat more'- is not to eat ? you mention also that your husband criticises you for not getting them to eat enough.

I wonder what would happen of you just provided them with a range of healthy foods (perhaps erring on the sound of higher fat- healthy fat of course) and just ...left them to it

I have no advice on the IVF, but my daughter is on the 2nd centile for weight. She's been like that since about age 2, and the consultant is happy so long as she stays on her curve. But, I know what you mean about no appetite, for years she didn't ever say 'I'm hungry', and we are awaiting an autism assessment as this lack of proprioception (also never feels cold) along with shutting down and sensory issues makes it a possibility. However in the last year, age 9 she's joined a swimming club. At first, I was worried the exercise would use up precious calories, but actually, it's triggered her appetite. She now gets hungry and portions have naturally increased. There's the first signs of a bit of muscle on her little frame and she's so much happier. She's training 4.5 hours a week now and occasionally even has second portions at dinner. It could just be that she's a year older, I don't know, but just wanted to say that there may be light at the end of the tunnel with the eating for your little boys.