IVF dilemma. Thinking of going through IVF forThe purpose of gender selection.

[VS1987]

We have 2 boys (5 and 7) with growth issues, candidates for growth hormone therapy. It’s been the source of constant stress and anxiety
them being under 5 percentile constantly. Otherwise completely healthy and happy children.
Had 2 miscarriages (also boys) before them, but all the 4 pregnancies happened on the 1st try.
However, I always wanted a bigger family and I still have a void of being a girl mom and have a daughter.
I’m sure we could get pregnant again, but I can’t fathom to go again through this growth problems and stress around it, having a boy. In my head hight with girls it’s not as much of an issue, I am petite myself and my husband is average height. He only agrees to have another child through IVF juts To make sure it’s a girl this time. I agree the whole point of having another child is having a daughter.
I guess I’m trying to find justification for it, but having fears of IVF and moral dilemma. After hearing the both sides: One is that it’s unethical to select the gender and IVF is against nature bla bla bla. And even that IVF children somehow more at risk and not as good as “natural” which is ridiculous but makes me anxious. And on the other side are the parents who can’t conceive and any child would be a blessing for them - I feel bad asking on their forums With all that does anyone has any thought if there are other aspects of it? How bad is IVF for the health of both a mother and a child? I’ve been ruminating around it for weeks before writing here.
Please no insults. But every opinion or argument is valid. Thanks

You need to see a geneticist and find out if your DSs’ growth issues are sex linked or not, and what’s causing their growth issues. From that information you’ll know whether a girl would be likely to avoid having those same issues or if you’ll likely only ever produce children with growth issues.

Have you taken your sons to a paediatric endocrinologist and had them properly assessed for growth hormones and have a plan laid out for when they would start treatment?

I think that sex selection of embryos for anything other than sex linked genetic health issues is wrong and shouldn’t happen. Deliberately having a girl because short girls will be bullied less than short boys is what you’re thinking, right?

I’ve done IVF because I’m infertile. It gave me my child. Not a chance I’d go through that if having sex could have gotten me pregnant instead. Way cheaper too to have sex instead of IVF.

My DD is short. We’ve seen a paediatric endocrinologist. DD was thoroughly assessed. Small but normal and healthy. Physical development was age appropriate and normal with no delays. Was told that DH and I together were never going to have tall children because I’m short and so is DH. DD has pretty much finished growing and probably at her adult height. She’s less than 5 feet tall.

They don’t have any health issues but being short. We checked for every possible issue.

It sounds as if you aren't in the best place at the moment OP, and your DH's attitude isn't helping matters. I know someone who spent thousands on private growth hormone therapy for their son and it made little difference to his final height, about which he has always had anxieties regardless. I also know someone whose son has achondroplasia. As parents they've supported him in a way that encouraged self-acceptance and made it clear that being shorter is not being 'deficient' as a human being in any way..

I'm sure having such worries about your sons takes its toll, but it's really to early to be thinking about intervention, unless there is an endocrine issue that is causing it. There are so many things in parenthood that cannot be controlled, and thinking that somehow having a daughter would compensate isn't a good enough reason to have another child.

This article by Jo Bartosch (who's just 4ft 7in) is thought;provoking and well worth reading.
https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/july-august-2020/short-changed-by-society/

It’s been a thing for years. It’s not new. They take a cell from the embryo and can determine the sex and test for a whole range of genetic conditions. Affected embryos can then be discarded and the healthy embryos transferred into the woman or frozen for future use.

Why is IVF when you already have children reprehensible?

Even if you had the ‘perfect child ‘ via IVF then she will still carry the genetics for small grandchildren. You should focus on the children that you already have. If you want a larger family you could look at fostering or adoption.

"the whole point of having another child is having a daughter." - This is grim.

"IVF children somehow more at risk and not as good as “natural” " - More at risk of what? Not as good as naturally conceived children in what way?

I really don't get the hate for sex balancing in your family.

The phrase a daughter is a daughter for life, a son is a son until he takes a wife exists because so often it is true. Before anyone comes for me, yes I know that's not always the case, but as a whole it is.

As somebody else said, as long as you are married, clinics in Northern Cyprus will assist in IVF for sex selection. I think there may also be ways to have some sort of sperm sorting done (instead of fertilising eggs and then selecting female) but I'm not sure where does that. I think both might be illegal in the UK.

Then why are you talking about growth hormone treatment? Why would you put them through the side effects to achieve an extra inch or two in height when they’d still be short anyway?

Growth hormones were vaguely mentioned for my DD but the paed. endo said that there was no good reason for DD to have them. That regardless that she was going to be short and the negatives of growth hormones far outweighed the positives.

FWIW one of my brothers was short and chubby. Puberty happened. He grew tall and became a healthy weight almost overnight once puberty kicked in. Same might happen to your children. We did have a tall grandfather so that’s likely where his tall genes came from.

This reads as you are ok with short girls but not short boys? Is that correct?
Or is it that they have a condition which is linked to boys only which impairs growth?

Tbh, if you wanted tall kids, you should have married a tall man. A petite person plus an average person will usually have shorter children. Plus being tall isn't all that. I'm 5'8" and DH is 6'3". Our 10 year old is height of an average 13 year old, head above their friends and they really aren't keen on it.

Short isn't a health issue, especially if you (their mum) are short.

@Bushmillsbabe I guess OP thinks that short girls are cute and acceptable but short boys are inferior and a failure.

Mum here of one son who was not big enough to even have a percentile on the growth chart until he was 10 and is now 6'1" as a young adult, you are putting too much emphasis on your sons growth. There isn't a male in our family who has been over 5'10' in generations. You sound incredibly shallow.

I guess I am trying to find justification for it

There is none.

You don’t resolve the “constant stress and anxiety” about your boys by bringing another baby into it. Especially one that then has to live up to whatever your beliefs are about daughters.

Fucking hideous.

It always makes me chuckle when mothers with daughters scold mothers with sons for wanting a daughter.

I have two sons and as much as I love them, I would have loved a daughter. I’ve faced the fact I won’t be having any more children, but if I was to ever have another child, I would wish for a girl.

Do what makes you happy op. If you have the money for it then go for it.

I really don't get the hate for sex balancing in your family

I really really dislike the term sex balancing. Are families with all girls or all boys “imbalanced”? How ridiculous.

But why do you think you won’t have that closeness with your own sons. You reap what you sow!

Again, you're hoping for something from a daughter that might not happen. This "precious" relationship - both my brothers (one a former coal miner, one a former soldier) were MUCH closer to our mother than I ever was or wanted to be.

Why can't you focus on the children you have, rather than a fantasy child?

I have moved back to where I am originally from to be near my parents. Just spent all afternoon with a male colleague who has done the self-same thing.

Don't think sex determines your closeness to parents/children; it's a combination of factors both within and without our control.

That is no different from any couple who manage to get 3 (or more) healthy embryos through IVF and decide they want 2 children so only use two. It is not at all uncommon for couples not to use all their embryos. Whether you agree with the OP’s motives or not, discarding embryos due to the sex is no different from discarding them as you feel your family is already complete.

In the same way as you cannot say you are pro choice if you put conditions on that choice. Whilst abortion due to the sex of the foetus does not sit comfortably with me, I know I have no right to object to that with one breath whilst saying it’s ok simply because you don’t want a baby.

Im one of 4 sisters 1 brother and not at all girly. We had a great upbringing but personally I was NEVER close to my DM. It never upset me and my sisters dont have this issue but I just never felt a link and as a kid I used to wonder if I was adopted!! Great link with DF though.
Just because you have this ideal image of what having your daughter does not mean reality will be anything like that.
We also tried ivf and were unsuccessful and made a decision after 2 attempts thst that was it. The massive hormonal changes were awful and I took time off work as I was, at times, an emotional wreck.

A friend (UK) recently underwent IVF and only had female eggs implanted. This was due to her being a carrier of a genetic condition that only impacts men. They had to go through genetic testing, and from what I gather tested the eggs as well. Only the female eggs were "safe" to be implanted.

Having IVF is perfectly fine.

Gender selection (illegal and immoral) - shame on you. Seriously.

This is one of the most depressing threads I've read for ages. Ivf with gender selection because you already have two boys who are small and can't face another small boy!

unless they are the size of Stuart little its insane and to be honest an insult to them.

I do worry that whatever girl you have will not live up to whatever you have in your head. What if she's a 6ft5 giant would that be to big?!

You are lucky to have healthy children and it seems horrible to purposely select other potential children to avoid them being like the ones you’ve got. I have moral objections to IVF in normal circumstances, but appreciate that people have valid reasons for wanting access to it. Your reason is flimsy though. You’re basically saying you don’t like the type of children you produce with your chosen spouse and you think any problems they have will because of their size would be ok if they were female. That’s pretty gross.