For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

So a whole group of women should be forced to use a communal changing room and be naked in front of a random male stranger because he didn't want to take his daughter up to their hotel room in the same building to get changed? He gets to make the decision on behalf of women he doesn't know that they will consent to him seeing them naked? And of course to seeing him naked in return.

No. There were other options available, back to their hotel room, or to take her into the men's and use the 1 cubicle so that his daughter had privacy. There is no valid argument in my opinion, for infringing on the privacy and dignity of any of the female changing room users .

My DH used to tell my DD “look at the floor” and then steered her to a cubicle or toilet to get changed. It’s not rocket science

He sounds like an entitled prick all round in terms of his behaviour in the pool and out of it.

An adult man has no right to be in a woman's changing room as a user of the facility, ever.

In the absence of family changing facilities (which there should be more of ideally) young children (usually under 8) use the facilities of the sex of the parent with them.

If this is a problem for you then don't use the pool or do what I have in the past and just pop dry robes on poolside and get showered etc at home (or in the hotel room

• as was possible in this case). Your decisions about where you want your child changed don't top trump the rights of adults to have single sex adult spaces - especially in communal changing facilities.

I think you are being a bit harsh, he’s trying to do a nice activity with his daughter, as he’s a guest and most hotel pools don’t have strict timetables so its pretty frustrating to go for a swim and find out that it’s restricted. Also the fact there are no family changing rooms is not ideal, I would find it extremely creepy for a little girl having to change in a males changing area. Yes going up to the room was probably a better option but give the guy a break!

Why would you find it creepy?

If I sent you in to the male changing room with your dad (or another equivalent make family member) would you be happy to change in front of the group of naked men in front of you?

I don’t bro I’ve grown men should be in womens’ changing rooms but more appropriate facilities need to be provided for children

But by this logic no mother should take her 4 year old son into the women's changing rooms?!

I work in a leisure centre. A man with a little girl would have to go into the male changing.

I think the logic is that the dad could protect his little girl from any unwanted attention in the male changing, but nobody would be able to protect the women in the ladies changing from unwanted attention from the dad.

Read the OP
He was told

I imagine it was also listed by the entrance

He was entitled all the way through

I was once a nanny for four boys for 8 years. They were all under the age of 6 when I started so I had swimming lessons with all 4 for 5 years. I had no choice but to change all boys in the ladies changing room including showering and drying hair (while two were twins of 2 years old at the beginning). I had complaints at least once out of every month from ladies (usually older) that I shouldn’t have boys in the ladies changing room. Meanwhile - what option do I have with 4 children? It was worse when the elder two were 9 and 11. I was not going to let people bully me to have children get changed alone in a men’s room on my watch. They were little boys! People need to have some common sense!

Your friend is wrong. I don't want to get undressed in front of strange men (or women for that matter! Lol)

Men shouldn't be going into womens areas. How do you know he's not a pervert who just uses his daughter as an excuse to watch women change?!

Men aren't allowed in womens changing rooms in shops, why is this any different? In fact, its worse than in shops because you have to get naked to change into swimwear.

Wonder if he takes her into womens toilets as well?!

Dad used to take me into the men's toilets and I have no recollection of seeing men's private parts. Admittedly, it's a bit different from a place where people change clothes.

He had another option, which was his room, so I don't know why he would change DD back into clothes to go back to the room, then change again for bath or bed. Pointless.

And?

Well considering I’m nearly 40, no. I’m old enough to change alone. But kids are not. My DD managed it when with her dad and isn’t scarred for life because her was there to protect her

If the thought of a little girl being around men is so horrifying presumably that’s because the problem is men being creepy/predatory/weird. So why should women put up with men being creepy/predatory/wierd in spaces men don’t belong in?

and what about little girls with their mums in the ladies. Why should they have to put up with men in their spaces as they change?

Isnt it just easier to take girls into the men’s?

Great point @BottomWibblyWob I myself have never seen women taking their young boys into the mens.

I would also have spoken up. The sensible thing for him to do would have been to go to the men's changing room first. Then if he was not comfortable with changing her in there, he could have either done it poolside in a discreet corner (lots of parents do this) or taken her back upstairs.

The women's change room is for women and their young children who need assistance. the men's change room is for men and their young children who need assistance. Swimming is a choice. If you don't like the changing options then you don't have to do it.

I’ve asked if any of the women supporting the man go into the men’s with their sons. I bet none of them do

Wrong.

She was angry at exactly the right person.

The person who asked about taking his DD swimming and was told "No, that is adult only time" and did it anyway. The person who had a room in the hotel and could have take his child there to dry and dress, if they should have been there in the first place, which they shouldnt have been. The person who kicked off at being called out on his "Fuck you, I will do what I want" behaviour.

The man is an utter prick and deserves to be called so.

I cant help wondering if there will be an MN thread tonight/tomorrow from a woman who is wondering if the filthy looks they are getting at breakfast are because her "D"H ignored the rules, took their DD swimming even though she reminded him of the rules, and he was stroppy that he was kicked out.

@Anotsolittlemermaid YANBU

I’m wondering if the people who think I was unreasonable would be comfortable if they were in a group of women who had just finished a class and getting undressed, showered, putting body lotion on etc… in a changing room completely comfortable in the same sex space and an unknown man came into that (very small) space where they were possibly naked.

Fair enough he had his daughter with him but there is a door from the pool that leads straight to the rooms and the lift to the upper floor rooms, it wasn’t a big inconvenience to simply go straight to the room, he didn’t have to walk round the hotel soaking wet and had a robe on himself. I think it’s likely he came down with the robe on but I’m not sure.

There js a clear sign saying no one is allowed in the changing rooms of the opposite sex over 8 years old, that’s why I knew if I approached a staff member that they would agree with me.

On this occasion the men’s changing room was empty and had a free cubicle, I’m not sure if this man just came down in his robe or had brought his daughter down in her swimming costume and been in there to get undressed first, if he had been in the men’s he’d have known it was likely to still be empty as there were no other men in the pool.

I have been a member of the gym for 15 years and there have never been any family cubicles or are likely to be, there just isn’t space. This is the first time I’ve witnessed anything like this but I also only swim at adult only hours.

Getting angry with exactly the right person
Ignored previous explanations
Disturbed other people but didn't care in the pool
Tried to do it again in the changing rooms

You took 9 and 11 year old boys into the women’s? I wish they would have just banned people like you.

I’m a single mum of 2 boys. They got sent into the men’s. You do not take 9 and a bloody 11 year old into the women’s. Disgusting entitled behaviour, and those poor girls trying to change infront of an 11 year old boy.

TBF an 11 year old boy is more than capable of changing in the boys. In fact I’d say an 8yo should. Totally inappropriate of you to bring them in the ladies at that age.

I would have been grumpy if I'd specifically booked and paid for a hotel with a pool and then got there and discovered it was closed to guests for local use. Hotel guests should get preference.

The changing room thing, he should have just taken her in the mens or back to their room. I suspect he was already annoyed about the pool thing and then just wanted to make a point. What the point was, no idea!

Exactly. Men are often creepy/ predatory/weird and no little girl OR woman should be exposed to that.

appropriate change facilities need to be provided for parents and their children (of both sexes)

This is why there should be family or mixed-sex group changing rooms IN ADDITION TO appropriate facilities for women and for men. In the absence of that, though, it would have been acceptable for him to take her into the mens' changing room. I appreciate his concern for the other men possibly already in the mens' changing room and wanting their privacy, but likely most men would be able to accept the relatively minor imposition of a girl toddler watching them change, just as women routinely accept other women bringing in a small boy if necessary.

A teenage girl or adult woman would be another story (as a teen boy or a man obviously would be - and I this case was - in the women's room) as while a woman in the men's room doesn't pose the same physical risk mean are also entitled to privacy.

Ah yes, we must always be kind and accept men in our spaces.
NO I fucking won't, and I'm so glad most on here won't either.

Your friend is an idiot