For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

@Needspaceforlego as the mother of 4 sons I think you vastly overestimate the difference a couple of years will make in protecting a child from a predator. What protects boys in a changing room are the other men - luckily most men are not predators (at least not of boys).

You do understand that swimming isn't mandatory, right? A lot of people on here are acting as if their older child not being able to go swimming is a breach of their their human rights.

If you don't want to send an 8 year old boy into the men's changing rooms alone, that's fine and a decision you, and any other parent or guardian is entitled to make.

What you are NOT entitled to do is disobey the rules of the swimming pool and ride roughshod over everyone else's preferences and dignity by inappropriately using the women's changing room, whether men with daughters or mothers with older boys.

Luckily there are lots of other options.
You can go swimming with a member of the same sex as the child - another family member, or a friend, or arrange a motherland-style group outing

You can research the pool beforehand to find one that does have family changing facilities

You can hide the child behind a towel and change them poolside/in the car

Or you can just not change them at all, stick a big hoodie over the top and wash/change them once they're home

Or worst comes to the worst and youre a single parent withiut any family or friends living in the middle of nowhere with just one old style gender-divided changing rooms swimming pool in a thirty mile radius, you can just not take your child to swimming pools for the comparatively short period until they are old enough to change alone. Of course you can still take them to the beach or splash pools or whatever in-between. They probably won't grow up scarred for life.

I don't know what your weird agenda is but it sounds pretty perverted to not respect this.

@Hillcrest2022
Ignoring the fact you've called me a pervert 😂 I don't have an agenda!!
Just a different opinion to you.
As a woman that has personally dealt with sexual violence I completely understand and agree that women should have spaces that remain a men free zone.
BUT children safety trumps every one else's, so although not ideal I'd rather a dad rush his small child into a woman's cubicle rather then live in a world where children are put at risk. As I've said several times now there clearly needs to be a third space (family changing rooms)
I'm not going to comment further because we are not going to see each other's point of view on this one, that doesn't make me a pervert though.

@NoGwenItsABoxingDayTrifle genuinely, - how is a little girl “at risk” in the men’s changing rooms with her dad right next to her? I don’t get it!

so although not ideal I'd rather a dad rush his small child into a woman's cubicle rather then live in a world where children are put at risk.

How would a child be at risk in the men's changing room with her father?

In the men's. That's what my dad used to do with us when we were little.

My DH in this situation would have taken DD (who is the same age as the child in the OP) in the men's and got her changed under a towel/ waited until the cubicle was free or changed her in the loo. Absolutely no way would he have gone in the womens!

@Needspaceforlego it's not that simple. My 11yo DS told me when he was 9 that’s he’s not comfortable with seeing me naked (I’m a woman), yet still doesn’t mind me seeing him naked. 8 is a sensible cut off IMO.

I don’t agree with you. I have stopped an older boy entering the women’s toilets. The mother sent him in. She did not go with him. I have never met this in a changing room. As a previous poster suggested, it is up to you to check what changing facilities are available before you go to a place or change under a towel beside the pool. I used to go as an extra adult to take the children swimming when my child was in year 3. None of the boys would have wanted to join the girls changing.

'BUT children safety trumps every one else's, so although not ideal I'd rather a dad rush his small child into a woman's cubicle rather then live in a world where children are put at risk.'

The little girl wasn't at risk. She was with her own father! What exactly is the risk here? If he doesn't like the thought of naked men in the vicinity of his daughter, he can make other arrangements (he had options). He does not impose himself on a group of naked women. That is absolutely unacceptable in any circumstance.

@NoGwenItsABoxingDayTrifle Yes, kids safety it the most important, what about the safety of the 9-10-11yo girl starting puberty and suddenly there is a grown man in her changing room? Or a boy older than 8 who is staring at her?
Again, anybody older than 8 should never enter the opposite sex changing room, full stop. That is the rule. If someone believes their circumstances mean they can’t comply, they can absolutely discuss with the venue and try to find a solution, but that will never be a male older than 8 in the female changing room.

Can someone please explain why the supposed right of this man’s DD ( to not get changed in front of men) is more important than the rights of the other girls already in the female changing room to not get changed in front of men? Or those who may wish to get changed but can’t because there’s a man in there ?

Why does the right of a girl who is accompanied by a man trump the rights of girls who are alone or girls who are accompanied by women ?

Its hard for me to see how this line of argument is about the rights of children. From here it looks a lot like men’s rights.

What????

No way, you were right to intervene OP. A 4 or 5 year old can go into the opposite sex changing rooms, he should have taken her into the men's. Your friend is bonkers.

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This!!

My ex used to take my girls into the gents with him if I wasn’t there. There wasn’t a choice if he didn’t want to go into the ladies. This was in toilets and changing rooms. When I asked him about men in the urinals he said “If the girls look all they see is men standing with their backs to them, and it takes seconds to get into a cubicle “

"But children safety trumps every one else's, so although not ideal I'd rather a dad rush his small child into a woman's cubicle rather then live in a world where children are put at risk"

You might have a point if the child's safety was being put at risk but there is no risk to the child's safety in the men's changing room when accompanied by her father.

To reply to some of your comments, clearly in this situation the dad should have used his hotel room but he didn't for whatever reason.
I have a son and a stepdaughter, I met my stepdaughter when she was 4... So on most outings she would have come into public toilets with me. If she was alone with her dad he would have to use a disabled toilet or a bush. She would have gone ape shit if he had took her into a men's urinal. (Who can blame her)
As I've said, I was single for the first 12 years of my son's life. From memory if we were out and about and he needed the toilet again bush or disabled toilets. If that wasn't available he used the woman's toilet. This never caused a problem!
As I've said before, a boy was SA in a man's McDonald's toilet in my area. Extreme and rare I know but it made my mind up that I wouldn't send him into a men's toilet/changing room alone.
It's not ideal and it's why (like at my local swimming pool) there should be open plan unisex family changing rooms.
As others have also pointed out, boys (definitely my son) get to age 7/8 and don't want to share a cubicle with their mum. That's why the plan of cubicles makes more sense again, they can go next door where you can hear they are safe.
People can argue back all they want but I'm not going to change my opinion. I have been SA, flashed at, intimidated by to many men in my life that means I'd never want to send a child into a room full of naked men. I know we all did it with our dads forty years ago but times have moved on (thank god)
I also completely get that it's a risk to women to have a man wander into the changing area, like I said.. he should have used his room but failing that there should have been a third option for his daughter.
And before anyone says it, I'm aware that single parents of opposite sex children can decide to never go swimming but lots want to.

100% this!

Exactly. The child wasn’t in an unsafe situation. She was with her dad.

You're wrong. At no point in my childhood was I ever given the message that bodies were wrong.

What I was taught, along with most people in Western society, was that certain parts of the body were private and you didn't show them in public. If you're not able to conceive that for some children the disparity between this and seeing strangers with their private parts out - possibly parts the child didn't know existed - could be unsettling, then you're lacking imagination imo. Or else a militant naturist, which still wouldn't mean you were right.

@NoGwenItsABoxingDayTrifle as a mum of 3 boys I know what you mean sending your son into the men’s . I did feel uncomfortable about doing that when they were between 8 and around about 12 (I still did though). It was easier when I could send 2 boys in at a time. With 3 boys I couldn’t take them swimming on my own anyway so it wasn’t really an issue.

But I still don’t understand your point of the girl being “at risk “ in the men’s with her dad. How?

You're right she would probably be fine with her dad but she might not have felt comfortable. My stepdaughter would have gone ballistic if my husband had tried to take her into the men's changing room when she was 5. (I don't think that's bratty behaviour that she would have had to get over, I understand why that would make a little girl uncomfortable)
The dad in this case should have used his hotel room.
My first response on this post was YANBU to not want a man in a female changing room but YABU to expect a little girl to go into a men's.
It's pretty shocking there isn't a third space for children/parents. I've lived in London and now Sussex, I've never come across a swimming pool that doesn't have unisex family changing rooms. Thought they were standard but obviously not.

The places that I've come across with only Male / Female are various hotels, A couple of private gyms, A pool in a university, and a couple of pools attached to schools (one council, one private).
Oh and a purpose built swimming lesson facility. Which was bonkers I'm sure they were trying to cut costs with 2 open plan rooms rather than individual cubicles.

I've tried swimming lessons for my kids in various places, inc the uni, school, private gym and council facilities.

Council facilities tend to be changing villages with individual cubicle.

The swimming pool we regularly use has one large unisex changing room. No hooks or benches, just lockers in the middle, separate lockable shower cubicles and then large lockable changing cubicles. It is SO much easier because no one gets changed or showered where anyone else can see and you can just go in one cubicle as a family or any combination of parent/child… you just get on with it without the fuss.

When we go somewhere else I have a bit of a rude awakening when we have to faff with Male/Female changing rooms and who’s going in with who 😂