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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not know when to spay dog

30 replies

inneedofgooddogideas · 20/09/2023 12:39

Posting here rather than dog section as keen to get opinions
we have a 4 month old female terrier. We need to decide asap about whether to get her spayed before her first season or to wait. I have heard lots of people advising to wait due to issues, but keen to hear from people who did it before the first season and whether they actually had any issues or not?

it seems there are pros and cons to each side of things health wise, but I am unsure how many of these are more anecdotal than scientific (eg getting them done early locks them into puppy-like behaviour etc). It would be easier for us to get her done sooner but my number 1 priority is her health and well-being.

please share your experiences and opinions!!

OP posts:
SM4713 · 20/09/2023 12:43

I grew up abroad and all our female dogs were spayed prior to their 1st season. I don't know of any issues we had at all.

I live in the UK now and it seems less common to do it prior to 1st heat. The vet said to get her done 3mths after the last heat. This was only after I'd specifically asked about it. They never actually gave any advice about it at any puppy checks/vaccinations etc etc. She is in heat now- so will get her done in 3mths.

Hopefully an actual vet can advise though.

whitebreadjamsandwich · 20/09/2023 12:44

Vet advised post first heat for us, so she was over 1 by the time she was done

Original poster
inneedofgooddogideas · 20/09/2023 12:50

we have discussed with our vet and they have not advised either way. I am worried she is very small at the moment but not sure if this would actually be an issue

OP posts:
emotionalpuddle · 20/09/2023 12:53

My ex MIL had hers done before the first season and she ended up incontinent (the dog not my MIL 🤣) vet advised that was a risk if done before first season/fully grown apparently? I have male dogs so haven't had first hand experience as such!

ManateeFair · 20/09/2023 12:55

The advice used to be to get them spayed after their first season, but it's changed now I believe - most animal charities (PDSA, Blue Cross etc) advise that it's perfectly OK to spay them before their first season (and obviously it will reduce the risk of an accidental encounter that could see her having pups when she's still a pup herself).

If you decide to let her have a season, then you definitely need to wait at least three months after that before you spay her.

Yesnomaybeok · 20/09/2023 12:57

3 months after 1st season. Far too early to do it now.

ManateeFair · 20/09/2023 12:59

emotionalpuddle · 20/09/2023 12:53

My ex MIL had hers done before the first season and she ended up incontinent (the dog not my MIL 🤣) vet advised that was a risk if done before first season/fully grown apparently? I have male dogs so haven't had first hand experience as such!

The incontinence risk apparently only applies if the dog is very young, eg under four months. I think most vets suggest around six months is a good time.

Original poster
inneedofgooddogideas · 20/09/2023 13:01

Sorry meant this in reply to the comments about incontinence:
This was one of my concerns. she is a small breed so will mature quicker than larger breeds but I don’t this to be an issue for her

OP posts:
Whereforartthoudave · 20/09/2023 13:02

our UK vet said 3 months after the first season or risk long term issues such as incontinence.
Why rush it? Our dogs season was t much of a hassle, other than keeping her on a lead for a while.
key hole option is more expensive but they heal much quicker and it’s less invasive. If you have an active type dog like a terrier consider it.

Original poster
inneedofgooddogideas · 20/09/2023 13:02

Yesnomaybeok · 20/09/2023 12:57

3 months after 1st season. Far too early to do it now.

Why?

OP posts:
Whereforartthoudave · 20/09/2023 13:03

Small breeds more likely to have issues if you rush…

Original poster
inneedofgooddogideas · 20/09/2023 13:06

Whereforartthoudave · 20/09/2023 13:02

our UK vet said 3 months after the first season or risk long term issues such as incontinence.
Why rush it? Our dogs season was t much of a hassle, other than keeping her on a lead for a while.
key hole option is more expensive but they heal much quicker and it’s less invasive. If you have an active type dog like a terrier consider it.

Thanks. The incontinence is really the main worry for me. We would do keyhole, though our vet said it wasn’t necessary. Our reasons for doing it before are

  • health wise less risk of certain cancers and less risk of things like phantom pregnancy
  • as mentioned there seem to be health pros and cons to both so on one hand why rush but on the other hand why wait?
  • we live in a dog heavy area so walking her even on a lead at funny times when it season may attract attention (we can just pick her up if needed)
  • we have carpets so selfishly it would be easier for her not to have a season
OP posts:
TheFlis · 20/09/2023 13:07

Check with the relevant breed council if there is any specific advice for your breed as it really does vary. I have a dachshund and there is a lot of evidence that neutering them (male or female) before they are two brings a much greater risk of them having back issues. Vets are often not aware of the nuances of different breeds and their implications.

Original poster
inneedofgooddogideas · 20/09/2023 13:09

Whereforartthoudave · 20/09/2023 13:03

Small breeds more likely to have issues if you rush…

What sort of issues are you referring to?

OP posts:
Original poster
inneedofgooddogideas · 20/09/2023 13:12

TheFlis · 20/09/2023 13:07

Check with the relevant breed council if there is any specific advice for your breed as it really does vary. I have a dachshund and there is a lot of evidence that neutering them (male or female) before they are two brings a much greater risk of them having back issues. Vets are often not aware of the nuances of different breeds and their implications.

This is a good idea but sadly there’s no information on this from the club. I have tried to ask breeders for advice but obviously due to their nature they don’t spay their dogs at a young age so it seems more anecdotal then evidence based…

OP posts:
Yesnomaybeok · 20/09/2023 13:13

inneedofgooddogideas · 20/09/2023 13:02

Why?

Show quote history

Because early spaying can cause all sorts of issues like bone cancer, incontinence, reactivity, aggression, hip dysplasia etc.

Nopenopenopenopenopenope · 20/09/2023 13:13

In my experience, the consensus is that there is no consensus. Ask a good vet. In fact ask a few. There are arguments for doing it or not, arguments for this age or another (often breed dependent), and potential problems with either way.

I would speak to a trusted vet, get their advice and maybe that of a second or even third vet, and make your own mind up.

Neither of my dogs are spayed and this has been the right choice for them thus far for various reasons. Have discussed with several vets over the years and the perceived benefits versus risks of major surgery aren't actually benefits for my dogs or for me. First sign of anything wrong they go to a vet so I am relatively unconcerned about pyometra.

Scarlettpixie · 20/09/2023 13:21

Our vet advised to wait until 3 months after the first season. I was told the operation is easier if the dog is not close to being in season whereas if you do it before the first season, they could be just about to come into heat.

We followed the advice. The first season wasn’t a big deal. We put throws on sofas and bed. You can get pants for them if you are worried about carpets although we didn’t bother. She was very good at cleaning herself and these would have prevented that.

ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs · 20/09/2023 13:23

Hi, vet here.
I can understand your confusion. When I first qualified (many years ago!) Advice was to wait until after first season. Then a few years later we started spaying before first season. In the last few tears some studies have come out to suggest waiting until after first season (possibly longer for giant breed dogs)!
Pros for doing before first season : no hassle of season and no risk of pregnancy (can be an issue in households with more than one dog); virtually eliminates the risk of malignant mammary cancer in later life.
Pros for after first season: still massively reduces risk of malignant mammary cancer; less risk of incontinence in later life; hormones have been proven to have effect on growth and bone growth (increased risk of bone cancer in some breeds neutered early)
Both ways eliminate the risk of promethazine, which can affect up to 1 in 4 unneutered bitches and is life threatening.

On balance I tend to prefer to wait until after first season, unless mitigating circumstances. I'm less bothered in small breed dogs whose skeleton matures more quickly.
HTH!

MujeresLibres · 20/09/2023 13:24

If you spay before they've finished puberty (when they're about 2), the lack of hormones when they're still laying down bone tissue can cause issues later on. They really need the sex-specific hormones for this. Hence the poster upthread talking about dachshunds backs. We waited until our dog was 2, obviously she had several seasons but we didn't find it a big hassle.

ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs · 20/09/2023 13:24

Pyometra, not promethazine!!

SM4713 · 20/09/2023 13:38

Regarding the actual heat and bleeding OP. My MIL let her dogs bleed all over the house! On the floor, bedding, pillow, rugs etc! I don't wander around the house naked when I'm menstruating, so no idea why someone would do be happy with blood everywhere? 😱

I bought nappies from Aldi, about £3 for 50 of them for my dog. I cut a little tail hole out and they are perfect for inside the house. I take it off when she goes outside, and a new one goes on when she comes in. Some dogs bleed more than others, but I wouldn't risk it. Baby nappies are also about 100x cheaper than specific 'dog' nappies.

Poppysmom22 · 20/09/2023 13:46

We had it done prior to first heat and it was fine. Find a laparoscopic surgery if you are worried about risks and recovery

Original poster
inneedofgooddogideas · 20/09/2023 13:49

ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs · 20/09/2023 13:23

Hi, vet here.
I can understand your confusion. When I first qualified (many years ago!) Advice was to wait until after first season. Then a few years later we started spaying before first season. In the last few tears some studies have come out to suggest waiting until after first season (possibly longer for giant breed dogs)!
Pros for doing before first season : no hassle of season and no risk of pregnancy (can be an issue in households with more than one dog); virtually eliminates the risk of malignant mammary cancer in later life.
Pros for after first season: still massively reduces risk of malignant mammary cancer; less risk of incontinence in later life; hormones have been proven to have effect on growth and bone growth (increased risk of bone cancer in some breeds neutered early)
Both ways eliminate the risk of promethazine, which can affect up to 1 in 4 unneutered bitches and is life threatening.

On balance I tend to prefer to wait until after first season, unless mitigating circumstances. I'm less bothered in small breed dogs whose skeleton matures more quickly.
HTH!

Thankyou. This is super helpful. She is one of the smallest terrier breeds for context so hopefully that’s better in terms of the bone cancer risks but appreciate these will still be a factor. In your experience do you see a lot of incontinence issues from earlier spaying?

OP posts:
ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs · 20/09/2023 14:16

We do have a few, but some weren't even spayed early! And IME seems more of an issue in larger breed dogs