Archie Battersbee case

[whynotwhatknot]

I was just wondering why we're not allowed to post about this case-the deletion message mentioned it was ongoing so wouldnt be fair to the family

Charlie gards case was on going and there was numerous threads about it

Anyway if this stands maybe we can discuss

What do you mean by "truly horrible comments"? People were recognising the reality of the diagnosis but that is in the judgments so can't be controversial.

They won't take months - they'll be expedited.

I was a part of the original FB group which was ran by the “Archie’s Army” and I had to leave it because I found it too distressing.

Between people saying awful things about the hospitals ‘intentions’ towards Archie and the awfulness of the false hope the Army were giving to Hollie it was just becoming a circus. It was very unpleasant.

I can completely understand her desperation and in my heart I want to believe that she knows all this false hope isn’t real and that poor Archie has died.

The way things are being drawn out isn’t idea for anyone but I can completely understand that the mother just needs more time to accept she’s lost her son.

There is obviously a moral and ethical conflict to this though but it’s certainly not something I’m knowledgable enough about to make any valid comment on.

I just hope that Archie finds his peace soon and that his family can start their grieving progress.

Terribly sad case. I do wonder if there should be additional, bespoke support for families struggling to accept prognosis-there seems to be an inherent distrust there for some, but by no means all, families in this position. I read a really interesting paper on the medical ethics of this case, as well as others, and they raised this point. I think it is one worthy of further discussion.

The way staff are treated by some when these cases are ongoing is disgusting

to say theyre after his organs they want him to die is just outrageous

I remember when GOSH had charlie gard there staff were being threatened how is that helping anyone

I'd be devastated if this ever happend to my DD but I disagree with Archie's mum's position.

I think she's just saying that the point they have raised an arguable one that they're entitled to put to another judge, she's not questioning her own judgment.

Sadly 'mum' does not always know best, this is a naive and to put it bluntly pretty ignorant approach.
This is what happens when people fetishise emotion over fact. Wishing something was true doesn't make it true.

The argument that “this is someone’s life” should apply to Archie first through.

It’s known that his brain has had no blood supply for over 2 months now, is necrotic (rotting) and parts of it have dropped down into the spine. This is 100% incompatible with life.

His mother may never come to terms with the circumstances of his death but that doesn’t mean the right thing to do is to keep his body ventilated until she is.

would anyone be ok with this? If their DH and children weren’t ready, and needed more time - would they be ok with their body ventilated for months after their brain had ceased to function?

I think it's a very sad case and it's understandable that his parents want to ensure everything that is possible to get Archie well has been done. To his parents he looks as though he is asleep and they're not at the stage where they can accept him being brain dead. You just want to send them a hug and wish for a miracle

I see there's a new photo of the poor wee man on there. He's getting bloated in the face probably due to fluid retention as his kidneys will not be working as well as they once were. His "Army" are commenting on how healthy he is looking and how he's on the mend. Noone can say anything to them unless it's a deluded statement and the mother is getting false hope again.

I don't understand if the brain has no blood flow how it is sending messages to the heart to beat

I think that this case is different to other cases because they know that Archie can't feel pain. The family's main point was that they felt rushed. With the absence of pain I think more effort should have been made to work with the family and give them time.

The heart is weird like that, it’s an autonomous organ that has its own electrical impulses. In heart transplants it’ll beat outside the body, on a tray.

myocardial cells will beat in a Petri dish.

That boy was so beautiful. He would have grown up to be really handsome. I still can't understand what on Earth possessed him to do this!

I agree with this. I don't think there is anything wrong with his mother wanting more time

From experience, I believe the Mum needs someone else to force this decision for her. I can understand that.

None of the media/army nonsense is doing anyone any good. But I can understand the need to believe that this was someone else's doing, something you were forced into.

I have seen it before in practice, they fight not so much with any expectation of 'winning' because that is no longer possible, but to be able to say (to themselves if no one else), that this wasn't their fault, they didn't do this and did everything they could.

It is just such an awful situation, with no good resolution.

What I dislike about all this is the 'armies' that go from sick child to sick child like its some sort of entertainment, Its ghoulish and unhelpful.
The worst though is the CLC they use grieving and distressed parents for their own right to life agenda. They specifically target these cases, they encourage the parents to distrust medical staff and they cause the break down of any form of communication or mediation that might actually be helpful.
They deliberately make this time harder for the parents for their own ends, then move onto the next case.

Totally agree with @reesewithoutaspoon about the "armies" that follow ill children. It's so unhelpful and when the inevitable happens they will move on, leaving Archie's family feeling lost and forgotten about when they will need the support the most. I hate that they are telling Archie's family that he is looking better and encouraging them to have false hope. I really hope that Archie's mum will start to trust the drs rather than random people on the internet.

Some members of the ‘Army’ seem unhinged. There’s a Facebook group called ‘Dignity for All’ and they’re going on there and calling the people all sorts. A couple of them have even said they hope it happens to their children. It’s disgusting. I hope to never be in the poor mother’s shoes but I would be horrified if people were wishing harm on others in my child’s name.

the Army page is a little like a slow motion car crash. All these people claiming the poor boy as ‘my warrior’ and the sad thing is when this is over they’ll all just move on to the next sick child

My husband was declared brain dead. The doctors and I discussed the withdrawal of care and within twelve hours he was gone.

What absolutely tortured me for months was whether it really was that bad, should I have fought harder for him etc. I understand that’s a common reaction.

In this case, a so called army of people spreading doubt and untruth will absolutely be impacting on the parents ability to come to terms with the facts of their situation.

My heart goes out to them. What a terrible situation.

Thanks for explaining. I posted that and then fell asleep. It's interesting

We all know good looking, popular, intelligent, sucessful people who struggle with mental health problems. It's an illness and doesn't discriminate.

I've read that he had ADHD - it can affect inihbitory control and emotion regulation - so could mean he made a snap decision without understanding the consequences, especially in a teenager.

I wish the "army" would focus their energies and attention on the CAMH waiting lists and lack of support for neurodiverse kids in schools. They could actually make a real difference. Instead they're bombarding this poor woman with false hope and attacking the hospital staff who want the best for him.

Sorry you went through that. I lost my dh too, in different circumstances. I too was full of "what ifs" which I think is part of the grieving process.

It's very sad.

As a bystander reading the medical stuff doesnt seem very optimistic, but as a parent I can well imagine that if it was me I'd fight every avenue I had to give my child every chance at life, I know I would really struggle to accept a prognosis like that.