Prince Andrew

[meccacos2]

In circumstances wherein no one can actually say how Epstein made his money... could it possibly be that this news.com article sheds some light on this?

www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/royals/virginia-roberts-reveals-details-of-three-sexual-encounters-she-claims-she-had-with-prince-andrew/news-story/91885ffd2595498dabf290116aa6544d

This woman is saying she was trafficked.

She’s been saying it for years.

Why is this a conversation no one is having?

Why is the palace waiting for it to blow over?

It's grim from all aspects.

Yes she was of the age of consent in the UK but I very much doubt Prince Andrew didn't know how his "friend" made money or lived his life. Accounts of his mansion in Manhattan and his private island all state Epstein was surrounded by very very young women all the time from all around the world with questionable reasons for being there. Weren't sex toys part of the bathroom fixtures and fittings?

I'm a nobody in NI and I read about Epstein's exploits on his private Island with young girls and boys and powerful men years ago. Some young men and women apparently never returning to the mainland....get the diggers out.

Also - Prince Andrew is a publicly funded public individual. The perception of him being someone who has sex with a very young girl far from home who had been told to have sex with him isn't good. You are held to different standards when you're public employee.

I think the stories are plausible and happened. Being on the defamation law suit.

Plus details I read yesterday about Andrew enjoying licking her feet and toes...wasn't Fergie shown to enjoy exactly the same pursuit years ago? Wonder (if she didn't already know about his proclivities) she now thinks 'my god he did this'

The appalling attitude to women continues.

Remember how Monica Lewinsky was torn apart by the press and many many other women.

It is so depressing.

Why he fuck does she have to be convincing? It's the facts that we actually know that you should look at.
Epstein= sex trafficker and paedophile
Prince Andrew = close friend of Epstein (post conviction and prison term) and photographed with teenager who a) describes being trafficked and b) says she had sex with Prince Andrew and c) that he was abusive and d) keeps on saying it for a very large proportion of her adult life.

Why, I repeat, why would anyone go to those lengths for that long.

As a side point, I've heard upwards of 40 disclosures of abuse from children. Very, very few weren't shown to be completely true. One of the many things it's taught me is that how convincing someone sounds has very little to do with the veracity of their claims.
Veracity = being true, honest, or accurate

@DriftingLeaves is there any particular reason you don't believe her?

Answered already.

In a previous life I was a volunteer counsellor. I've heard many harrowing stories from many victims. I'm not inexperienced as some seem to imply. I'm allowed a different opinion based upon my experience.

I reiterate. I can't stand Andrew. Still doesn't mean I ought to believe her, when I don't.

She was 17years old for heavens sake.
I personally think shes attention seeking it wasnt rape and it happened so long ago.
Talk about courting the press.
£ signs spring to mind.
Strange I never heard about this story until Epstein`s headlined the news with his trafficking culture.

The ignorant people on this thread are the reason rapists are so frequently acquitted and the victims ostracised from their communities while the rapist's life continues unaffected.

I don’t know why people don’t believe this girl.

Flight logs place her, Andrew and Maxwell in the same place as she describes. Her story is consistent with other victims.

There are photos of her and Andrew together. Why on earth would an unaccompanied 17 year old with no connections to Andrew even be there in the first place?

Andrew continued his friendship with Epstein after he was convicted of child sex offences. He KNEW then what he was like and didn’t care (because he stood to be blackmailed by Epstein?).

Epstein paid off debts for Andrew’s ex wife.

Andrew is up to his neck in this and the reason for palace silence is because they know it’s true and just want to go away quietly.

You can't have been a good counsellor if you thought you were capable of determining who was believable or not. Or if you thought it was in any way appropriate for you to be making such assessments.

Did Andrew know there was money involved?

He didn't get it for free did he?

Why does she have to be 'convincing'? How else do you think she had access to Andrew? Just walked up and said hello?

No wonder the justice for rape survivors is so broken if this is the sort of bullshit they have to go through.

@eladen

You can't have been a good counsellor if you thought you were capable of determining who was believable or not. Or if you thought it was in any way appropriate for you to be making such assessments.

I was a very good counsellor. In that role I made no judgements or expressed any opinion.

I'm not this girl's counsellor, so I don;t have to worry about that, I'm allowed to think and speculate. Odd that you think I shouldn't.

Because at 17 a woman knows full well what she’s doing.

My eldest is 17, on the cusp of adulthood but still a child, doesn't take any shit but would be in no way equipped to deal with a group of powerful, predatory men. We all thought we knew it all at that age but look back, we were still kids.

Why should the fact that it happened a long time ago and that she was 17 mean that she shouldn't talk about it now?

She was 17years old for heavens sake.I personally think shes attention seeking it wasnt rape and it happened so long ago.

Jesus fucking Christ

This is exactly the attitude which allowed domestic violence to go on for years without - "they could just leave"

Of the grooming in Rochdale and Oxford - the girls stayed out late drinking they knew what they were doing.

Grooming and mental abuse and trafficking is incredibly complex just look at the sally challen case.

Erm yes @Pilchardsky that’s exactly what I said. They don’t have lawyers “trawling the papers before they’re even published” for stories, as alleged, they are just contacted by the paper for comment on an upcoming story. Rather a different situation to the lawyer trawling isn’t it?

I have worked with victims of sex trafficking. Some of the replies on this thread are chilling.

It's PA I find unconvincing TBH. Remind me again why I am slaving away at work to support this individual in a life of unimaginable wealth and privilege?

Also I find PA a very strange target if you were go make this up. A minor royal, barely known in the US, where this story would gain the most traction (and where she can’t sue him) surely you’d pick someone rich powerful and American if you were going to make something up? There were certainly plenty of men with Epstein she could’ve accused

Also I find PA a very strange target if you were go make this up.

Exactly. There's so much evidence placing them in the same place at the same time, and her story lines up with other people's', yet people still don't believe her.

Why would she make it up?

It's interesting this whole historical sexual abuse problem.

Clearly there are many historical predatory paedophiles out there, who need to be brought to justice.

However what is clear that with time also comes those who want to make money out of this. Many will be legitimate, some will not be.

Some who came forward with the Savill enquiry have been found to be fake. The Cliff Richard incident. "Nick" and his allegations about Ted Heath and Leon Brittan. Michael Jackson. The trouble is once time passes, and people pass on, it is almost impossible to untangle the truth.

In the case of Prince Andrew, the police have already investigated the allegations and declared there is no case to answer. In the Daily Mail story today she states herself that she was 17, and in the UK, which while distasteful, is not an offence. He disputes it ever happened.

I have every sympathy with the victims. I have no doubt Epstein was a predatory paedophile, and justice needs to be done, in court. Prince Andrew should be taken to trial, and acquitted, or convicted on the evidence and the whole thing resolved.

@adaline money....

That photo of PA giving a furtive glance out of Epstein’s front door really makes me shudder.

Why has he not been arrested?

For what crime though? She was overage, he didn’t traffick her himself or pay her as far as we know.

@PianoTuner567 the police have already investigated and said of PA "no case to answer"

In a previous life I was a volunteer counsellor

Oh dear Lord! Two words that should not belong together unless the volunteer is fully qualified and capable of balanced rational thought using facts.

"no case to answer"
Does not mean nothing happened.

It is sickening, assuming it is true (and I believe it is) that he had sex with a girl only a couple of years older than his own teenage daughters at the time.

There was a really well-written article a few weeks ago in the guardian where the author said fir men like PA and Epstein, there were two types of girls in the world, girls which men like them could do what they wanted with and girls who should be protected from men like them at all costs (like Beatrice and Eugenie).

I'm not sure what crime you can convict PA of, as she was over age and I doubt he was personally involved in trafficking, unless she didn't consent to sex and he raped her.

But this is the complexity of trafficking, she may not have technically been coerced at the time and may have looked like a willing participant, but she was obviously pressured, and put in a situation she didn't know how to get out of.

I think we can all remember our 17 year old selves and think about how we would have felt in that situation, with an actual member of the royal family.

As for PA, I'm sure they'll just weather the storm and hope it will blow over. But I certainly think he should just quietly bow out of public life and crawl under a rock somewhere. I don't want to see him at the patron of charities or on the balcony / in carriages at Royal events.