Is ds's teacher unreasonable?

[shuz1980]

My ds has just gone into year 5. He's come out of school today saying his english teacher has said he will get detention if he doesn't write quicker. When he writes quick his hand writing is messy then he gets told off for that so he takes his time to ensure it's neat but then gets told off and threatened with detention. He was so upset saying 'Mum, i cant write fast and neat, i just cant do it' i have asked him if he's slow because of talking or getting distracted but he said no he's just taking his time and trying to do his best joined up writing. im going to speak to his teacher in the morning, im quite angry that she thinks he should gets punished for wanting to take his time and have neat work. Aibu?

Go in and speak to her. Don't go in angry. Listen to what she has to say. She may well have a different take on this.

How slow is he writing? Is there a speed between slow and his neatest writing and fast and messy? The trouble is that when he gets to tests there is a time limit so being able to write legibly at a reasonable speed is an important skill, plus while he is writing slowly he will either not get work finished or he will be holding everyone else up whilst they wait for him to catch up.

Have they tried other ways to help him before threatening detention?

His writing can be quite slow. He had to re-write 6 sentences for his home work and it took him around 10 minutes. He is in second set english and just below where he should be, his teacher last term was amazing and so supportive. We practice most nights writing sentences and his hand writing has improved so much but he's just slow. I think 3 weeks into a new term they should be more supportive at seeing where he is and how to support him, not punish him and make him dread his next english lesson for fear of detention. He's also extra eager to get his pen license so taking extra time to ensure neat work.

He doesnt seem to have a speed between the two.

I agree with discussing it with the teacher first; there will be problems if he can't keep up to speed without losing legibility in tests.
It sounds as if he'd be willing to work with you at home. Make it clear that you want to support and help.
Just a couple of ideas: handwriting patterns (don't worry about specific letters at first) in different coloured pens or pencils, aim for neatness, gradually build up speed against a timer. We usually banned biros, but one dyspraxic little chap needed a writing implement which offered less resistance, where for most writers, the slight resistance of the pen against the paper helps to form the letters, while biro skids around too much.
How does he hold his pen? would a shaped pen reduce muscular tension in his hand? My pupils used to call them "banana pens" because they curved into the side of the hand; I think Staedler, came in LH and RH versions. Or you can get little guides to slip on to ordinary pencils.
Has he been checked out for cross-lateral dominance? Yes I know I'm being technical; all it means is, it makes a child clumsy if they're naturally left-eyed but writing with right hand, or vice versa.
You could also try out a writing slope at home (art supply shop)

What does he mean by detention? I think it would be ok in Yr 5 for the child to have to stay in at break to get work finished. It makes the child realise they do need to speed up and get it done.
Usually it happens a lot at the beginning of the new school year but the children soon learn to keep up to speed after missing break a few times.
As you weren't in the class you didn't see how much effort was put in, so it might be that the teacher thought he was capable of more.

I can understand that in these exam-orientated times the teacher might want to help him write legibly at a reasonable speed. But I emphasis the word help. Threatening with detention is not helpful.

But if she is misunderstanding the situation (e.g. thinks he's taking the piss by writing deliberately slowly) then he needs to be given the chance to explain how he sees things, with your support.

I'd be straight in to see the head first thing tomorrow morning to ask why his staff are threatening pupils with detention instead of teaching and supporting them.

Yes, it's important that handwriting is quick and legible, but it's a skill that can be taught not beaten into DC.

As a teacher I find this shocking.

If children struggle to write quickly, don't they have a scribe or a keyboard for exams these days?

I'm shocked by the teacher's attitude, but would go in and see them before jumping to any conclusions.

Why on earth is anybody worrying about his speed? He's five ffs, he's still learning the process of writing!! Speed & neatness as a team is something built upon, you can't threaten a kid to make them faster. All this joint up writing crap sucks anyway imo. If you can read what is being written that should be what matters, not how many letters are joined together

Can tell it's early, i missed the fact he's YEAR 5. Sorry.
Still don't agree with the attitude of the teacher. Support should be happening not threats

I wouldn't be happy about that (ex teacher here). Go in and calmly discuss it.

Also check his pencil grip and how he is writing. Is he using his wrist as the main factor in letter formation etc? If this is something he hasn't picked up properly, he may be using his whole arm... from shoulder down in some cases, to form the letters. This is time consuming and exhausting for the child. It also results in the wring being slow in order to be legible. It is worth double checking that these things have been ruled out. It seems obvious but can often go under the radar. I would also be looking at whether linked script has been a recent introduction (some schools teach cursive handwriting, which prepares for joining, early) cursive should also encourage muscle memory - theoretically should improve spelling and speed through the muscle memory

Thank you for all the advice his detention is staying in and missing play time to catch up on work. I understand they are trying to get him ready for his sats next year but this is not the way to do it. He gets really emotional and will worry about every english lesson now, he cant write any faster without his hand-writing been messy so I'm upset that his teacher is not supporting him but punishing him for something he cant do. Im going to speak to the teacher this morning, hopefully all goes well.

So it's not really a punishment ... just finishing the work? he does need to complete the work - so the alternative is bringing it home?

Without any support to enable him to improve his technique - which should help improve his speed - then being kept in at play time basically is punishment

YANBU although like a PP said make sure you understand what's actually happening - maybe he was actually getting distracted.

It is a terrible policy though to punish children or give them extra homework or keep them in at play because they're not as good at something as someone else.

I would have a calm, chat with the teacher about it.

Hmmm, As a teacher I think there may be more to this story that meets the eye.
I often find that what children tell their parents is often quite different to the story that goes home to parents. (Often simply through a lack of understanding on the child's part)
I would advise you to go in and talk to the teacher in a calm manner and ask how you can work together to improve the situation.
However if it turns out that she has made this threat then it is totally UR as how on earth is this going to improve his handwriting !

You need to clarify what was actually said and why, and in what context.

I find it hard to imagine a teacher would simply say "right young man, it's a detention for you if you don't write faster"

At dd's school there are "recoup" hours after school for kids who don't/can't (for whatever reason) get their work done in class, or fail to do their homework. Then there are disciplinary detentions for those messing about in class.

I would definitely speak to the teacher to see what was actually said.
It may well have been a blanket statement ie for those of you who don't finish in time you will have to stay in at playtime to finish as you aren't quick enough.
This would be said more as an incentive to motivate the ones who are slow because they are messing around or talking.
As it appears he is struggling a little then a chat with the teacher is a good idea to work out what support can be given. The teacher is still getting familiar with the class so it may not be obvious that this is a problem rather than an attitude. (As there are almost certainly children in the class with a poor attitude to writing rather than genuine struggling.)
Hope you are able to resolve this positively and he feels more confident.

Please talk to the teacher. My daughter has hand writing problems that we (parents and school) hadn't really picked up on and now she is getting help.
Does he have to write joined up/cursive? Can he write quicker and neater if he doesn't? If the teachers normally expect cursive hand writing but he simply can't do it then the teachers shouldn't expect him to do it and let him write how he can.

Sets for English and detention. Sounds more like secondary school than Year 5. All very heavy handed.

If he is still having this in yr5 then maybe the teacher should be sorting out some handwriting support/assessment..
my DS had teh same and I had to speak to my gp about a referrral for an OT .....but until we had that appointment the school took the pressure off and used an experienced TA to work through a handwriting programme ( we have used loads ! )
'Speed up ' was one cant remember the other one/.......
www.thedyslexiashop.co.uk/speed-up-a-kinaesthetic-programme-to-develop-fluent-handwriting.html

for my DC he was left/right handed no dominence and other co-ordination issues so has ended up as a laptop user .....
however for others the programme really worked....

They really should be supporting more not punishing - I would suggest involving the SENCO as well if the teacher doesnt rethink....

And My DS got his 'pen licence' when he finished the handwriting programme ....for the effort of trying....even though his writing esp at speed was not a lot better it was when he had time

Personally I'd go in with the "I think DS may have misunderstood what you were saying about finishing work" and talk about how you are already working on his writing speed. If the teacher didn't threaten a formal detention then you won't have started on the wrong foot by accusing her - if she says that in fact he's quite right and she does want to punish him for writing slowly then you can go to the HT and escalate it.