To tell you about our first (bittersweet) win over the Girlguides transgender policy?

[AgnesBadenPowell]

I posted a thread in AIBU a few weeks ago about the Girlguides transgender policy. I'm on the App so can't link but in summary, the thread discussed the difficulties the policy posed for leaders.

Of particular concern is that transgirls should use the accommodation and bathrooms or the gender they identify as (fine) - but other girls don't get a choice and most importantly parents must not be told if a trans person is present. I see the need for confidentiality but I can also see why parents might object, for example, to their 12 yo daughter sharing a tent with a 14 yo natal male on camp without their knowledge or permission.

Anyway, despite all the letters and emails from me and others begging GGHQ to consult more widely with parents/leaders/girls and give us more practical guidance, none has been forthcoming.

So, I and some others spoke to the Sunday Times. I'm so glad they published - the implications of self ID reach far and wide and need to be properly thought out. But it's sad it had to get to this point. Some of my comments were edited out so I should say here that I love GG, I agonised over doing this and I think GG is making its policies with the best intentions.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gender-swap-boys-spark-guides-revolt-wtcv7xjk5?shareToken=772e2cb2a2f2c493cf7fdcdbc245ab9b

I won't be taking my Guides camping until this is sorted

Well I’m glad the article has been published highlighting the issue. But is it a win? Have GG agreed to change the policy yet?

My dad wants to go to guides, I have told her the reasons why she can't. Until this is resolved she won't be going.

There are some interesting comments beneath the article. Some are quite helpful.

I think it's despicable that girls now have a whole new fear to face - the fear of being labelled transphobic, at a young age.

I bet parents will told about that pdq.

What on earth have Girl Guides done?

My dad wants to go to guides
Freudian slip if ever I saw one!

@MrsJoshDun it's the first tiny victory, getting this published in the mainstream press with no hyperbole. But I'm under no illusion that we still have a long way to go.

Terfragette talk to the leader. She may well be one of us!

It's a start. Shame the article was so thin. As a leader, I think this needs to be out there. I am all for GG, as a child I got so much from being a member, as a leader I want to see young girls getting just so much. But this policy contradicts so much that they stand for, I cannot and will not follow it.

Ha ha my dd not my dad who is no longer with us.... Wow that really would upset people!! "look, I know you have this policy about allowing boys who identify as girls in your guides group but my dad really wants to join too, he'll be no bother I promise"...... 😉

Just went to the main Guiding Facebook page to see if this was being discussed as I know the nods there are a bit over zealous about deleting all trans stuff.

So far it isn’t, but someone has posted the new Peer Education resource (for non-Guiders, these are activity sessions run for younger girls by teenagers), called ‘Breaking Free’ about gender stereotypes- will be interested to see how the trans narrative fits into that!

My dd will not be going on any trips until this is sorted and trust is repaired. It is really sad the gg did this.

Well done OP!

Great news.. Let's hope GG see sense. No doubt they've been advised by some insidious and harmful organisation on this but they need to re-think

I know this thread is about the guides but do scouts or explorers have the same policies?

You joke Terfragette, but once this is all established and there are systems in place for successfully shutting up the victims, I fully expect that to be the next phase...

We are going to be legally forced to carry out the pretense that physically intact men are women because they say so, so why not take it one little half step further and say we must see the 49 year old man with receding hairline and angina as a 14 year old girl? Why should New Britney have to miss out on camping trips with the girls? And the argument will be that they were forced to miss out on that invaluable part of their girlhood, and so are entitled to relive it. Just watch.

@WhatCanIDoNowPlease I'm not involved in Scouts but they do now accept gender self identification. Scouts is a mixed sex group but children are permitted to use the facilities of the gender they identify as (so a biological boy/transgirl in with girls tent and the other biological boys in their own tent).

However their policy on this does seem to be a bit more flexible. Note the points about discussing accommodation arrangements in advance with the young person and others and making sure everyone is comfortable

members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/4228/gender-identity-supporting-young-people?cat=377,378&moduleID=10

Yes, it's already illegal to "misgender" (i.e. correctly gender) people in several areas, e.g. New York city.

Well done Agnes. I’m massively bothered by this GG policy as it’s ahead of the law (Equalities Act) and I think extremely ill-thought-out. I want trans kids to be supported but at that age hormones and puberty and ideas of self identity are so fluid it’s just a recipe for disaster. I also think it will have implications for how schools treat overnight trips.

Did they mention the petition?

Good for you!!

'bullying children'

200 girls walked out of a school rather than share the bathroom with a boy who identifies as a girl, he wouldn't use a gender neutral bathroom and insisted on using the girls.

But yes, do make it all about his hurt feelings.

How often is this an issue?

Bombardier in what way is it bullying children?

Another reason why no child of mine would be joining Guides.

Good for you OP. More need to speak out. No idea why people are so frightened to. So many are on your side.

Well done op. This is not bullying children although lies do sound better than the truth I guess.