To tell you about our first (bittersweet) win over the Girlguides transgender policy?

[AgnesBadenPowell]

I posted a thread in AIBU a few weeks ago about the Girlguides transgender policy. I'm on the App so can't link but in summary, the thread discussed the difficulties the policy posed for leaders.

Of particular concern is that transgirls should use the accommodation and bathrooms or the gender they identify as (fine) - but other girls don't get a choice and most importantly parents must not be told if a trans person is present. I see the need for confidentiality but I can also see why parents might object, for example, to their 12 yo daughter sharing a tent with a 14 yo natal male on camp without their knowledge or permission.

Anyway, despite all the letters and emails from me and others begging GGHQ to consult more widely with parents/leaders/girls and give us more practical guidance, none has been forthcoming.

So, I and some others spoke to the Sunday Times. I'm so glad they published - the implications of self ID reach far and wide and need to be properly thought out. But it's sad it had to get to this point. Some of my comments were edited out so I should say here that I love GG, I agonised over doing this and I think GG is making its policies with the best intentions.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gender-swap-boys-spark-guides-revolt-wtcv7xjk5?shareToken=772e2cb2a2f2c493cf7fdcdbc245ab9b

There's also something to be said for equipping girls, the significantly more vulnerable sex, with the skills and language to speak up when they're uncomfortable, when something doesn't feel quite right.

Telling them men/boys are actually girls removes the ability to name what they're uncomfortable about.

SuitedandBooted

Could not have put it better myself

As a parent I would be concerned about the possibility of pregnancy - especially as boundaries appear to be so...fuzzy?

There’s a cognitive dissonance- you have a teen trans girl (biologically male) in a relationship with a teen girl.

@Tinycitrus there certainly is a risk of pregnancy. I'm sure Julie Bentley, CEO of girlguiding UK and former CEO of the family planning association knows how the mechanics work. I have asked GG whether they acknowledge there is a risk, and what would happen if a fell became pregnant while in our care. What would they say to the girl and her parents? Would GG support the leader? Would our insurance pay the costs of any legal defence if the parents make a civil action against us, if it happened while leaders were following the polices? No response so far.

I read your post the other week OP . A few days later a rep from a language school came to view my house with a view to hosting students. I have one room with a double bed , I was expecting one student . The lady said the students are young teens and are happy to share a bed. I was a bit surprised and at the end of our conversation , thinking of the GG scenario of parents not being informed if a MtF was on camp, asked how they would handle it if a trans child was not only sharing a room but sharing a bed with a child of the opposite sex and not mentioning it beforehand to any one of the parents/host/children involved. The answer wasn't clear, but I couldn't say I would be cool with that , but the self ID view is this would be perfectly OK and no-one should bat an eyelid.

@tinycitrus
Isn’t there an issue here that no one is talking about - pregnancy?

To me that is the biggest issue for GG. The movement should be inclusive to girls - and if that means a teen who “identifies” as a girl then that’s OK by me, although others may disagree.

But I remember being a teenager. Hormones raging, sexual experiments and boundaries being fluid and how difficult emotionally it was. Trans children can’t (and shouldn’t, in my opinion) take hormones etc so they are very much stuck with their natal bodies at a time when sex is a big deal.

It would be all too easy for a girl to get pregnant without it being a case of the trans child being an abuser - it would just be two teens doing what they do. With some added gender confusion and sexuality confusion added in.

I worry about school trips too if a precedent is set.

”walchesterweasel that exact scenario has happened to a poster on MN - they ended up having to host the “girl” despite having been really clear they’d only accept female students.

The reason to ask for a specific sex could be important to the host family , but imagine your DD was sharing a bed with a 'girl' with a penis and not being told before the trip (and even if you found out , you would be the one with the problem if you tried to compalin )

So, walchester, a language school is happy to place two students in your house sharing a bed? Whatever sex or gender they are, if I were paying for my teen to go on a study trip I would expect them to get a bed of their own!

@xx factor well said.

Yup , I was surprised too !

@AgnesBadenPowell - do you have any information on what's happening with your campaign, given the fact girlguides were part of the stonewall meeting today? I'm fuming that they've ignored parents' and leaders' concerns yet are openly participating in this type of meeting without addressing safe guarding concerns raised.

For those picking up on the NAMALT element of the counter argument: should we stop CRB checking people who work with children?

Because we CRB check to protect children from predators (or at least the ones who have been caught). I don't see teachers up in arms about being offend by being CRB checked.

There are bad people out there, who will use any loophole to get their hands on vulnerable young people. The checks and balances around sex segregation were put in places to create boundaries that protect children from these people.

Because people who want to abuse, or could abuse children (especially vulnerable are young girls) don't have a specific race, religion or creed. But they are, overwhelmingly , the same sex.

So CRB checks, sex segregation and buddy up systems are there to protect vulnerable children.

How can anyone fail to see that what is being put forward by GG breaks down those safeguards and creates pockets of silence where abuses can occur. They are creating the right environment for systematic abuse to happen.

...been following this very closely

Well done OP!