To tell you about our first (bittersweet) win over the Girlguides transgender policy?

[AgnesBadenPowell]

I posted a thread in AIBU a few weeks ago about the Girlguides transgender policy. I'm on the App so can't link but in summary, the thread discussed the difficulties the policy posed for leaders.

Of particular concern is that transgirls should use the accommodation and bathrooms or the gender they identify as (fine) - but other girls don't get a choice and most importantly parents must not be told if a trans person is present. I see the need for confidentiality but I can also see why parents might object, for example, to their 12 yo daughter sharing a tent with a 14 yo natal male on camp without their knowledge or permission.

Anyway, despite all the letters and emails from me and others begging GGHQ to consult more widely with parents/leaders/girls and give us more practical guidance, none has been forthcoming.

So, I and some others spoke to the Sunday Times. I'm so glad they published - the implications of self ID reach far and wide and need to be properly thought out. But it's sad it had to get to this point. Some of my comments were edited out so I should say here that I love GG, I agonised over doing this and I think GG is making its policies with the best intentions.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gender-swap-boys-spark-guides-revolt-wtcv7xjk5?shareToken=772e2cb2a2f2c493cf7fdcdbc245ab9b

There is no gender binary and young people are increasingly aware of this.

But transgender ideology rigidly enforces gender roles, to the point of insisting that people make hugely damaging and dangerous changes to their body for the sake of them.

How people fail to see the idiocy of this movement when shown how irrational it is really baffles me, they are literally arguing white is black?

I knew I'd get some flak on social media for this. It's interesting how the people calling me a bully of children, hateful, a bigot etc have all blocked me. So no chance of a reasonable discussion and no right of reply for me in the face of some pretty serious allegations.

I know girlguiding is reading these threads. I know I'm not a bully. I know that all girls are welcome in my unit and I will not tolerate any form of bullying. Its not my place to question the decision of a child and their parent to begin the transition process. It is very much my place to ensure all girls in my care feel comfortable. There are no other circumstances where people are insulted for not wanting to sleep/change/wash in the presence of a person with the body and genitals of the opposite sex (regardless of gender). Why is it ok to insult guide leaders? Or guides themselves?

You work with kids with asd? I hope you demonstrate better self control in that context than you do here.
I call bullshit.

Ps at least I have logic to twist. Still awaiting enlightenment on yours.
I’ll not hold my breath.

My dds are in rainbows and brownies. I will be withdrawing them if this doesn't get sorted. I want a segregated activity and I don't want my 5 year old exposed to such bollocks. If i wanted inclusive I would ha e chosen beavers

I haven't read the full thread but wanted to thank OP for this. I tried to explain about self id to a friend this morning who didn't believe it would happen and I will be sending this article's link to her to say that if it can happen in the guides it can happen anywhere.

I will be asking her to sign the petition.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

HomeTIRF Can't help but notice that you used low functioning to refer to some of these children you've spent eight hours supporting. Interesting term.

At the risk of sounding like the thought police, can we please get back on track with this thread? Insults don't help anyone.

I have no axe to grind with trans people. I don't know anyone who does. I can only imagine the distress of feeling that ones body is somehow wrong and doesn't fit with your sense of self. I will offer what support I can, including to any trans girls who come to my rainbows.

But do I think that it's possibly to change biological sex? No.

Do I think children and parents have the right to chose single sex accommodation (actual choice, no leading questions or pressure)? Yes, unequivocally.

It is possible to retain single sex spaces and still offer the trans child a great experience. It is also a right in law. GG has a great track record of inclusivity and adapting to meet the needs of its members. We can do this!

@IMightMentionGriddlebone

What's your point besides showing a lack of understanding and, I assume, making a passive aggressive suggestion as to the legitimacy of my 'story'.

That was '8 hours today', not simply 8 hours. High functioning and low functioning autism are commonly used phrases although open to interpretation by those who use them. They are not judgements of the person or their worth.

Does that help you a little bit?

My point? Oh, I just thought it interesting. Apropos of nothing in particular, I've always thought that when one's using autistic children to virtue signal one's commitment to inclusivity et cetera, it might be a good idea not to use red flag terminology that is somewhat, er, controversial within the autistic community.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I have sent a message (see below) through their website, so it will be interesting to see if they respond.

*Hi there

I'm interested in finding out more about girl guides for my young daughter (biologically a girl/female).
However before I do so, I have one question. I see that for the GG, the word "girl" relates to anyone who self identifies as a girl. Therefore if my young daughter (biologically a girl/female) went on a field trip or sleepover event, in theory she could be sharing sleeping quarters with someone who self identifies as a girl but who is biologically male. Have I understood that correctly?

Have I also understood that the girl guides would be under no obligation to let me know that my daughter (biologically a girl/female) would be sharing sleeping and bathing quarters with a child who is biologically male?

Kind regards*

I wasn't virtue signalling but mentioned my job in response to another poster talking about autism and the only people who would call HFA and LFA, er, controversial are right-on wankers who like to police language rather than consider anything of substance.

By the way, you would appear more intelligent if you dropped the Latin (and Greek) and concentrated on correct grammar. The random italicisation does you no favours either.

There's always the angry one

Greek? Good grief, apropos is not a Greek tag. It's been an English word longer than pyjamas has. (Also not direct Latin, Greek or Babylonian.)

Thank you for your feedback though, and any time I am trying to appear intelligent, I will certainly bear it in mind. Hopefully no-one will make a complaint to the Advertising Standards Agency as a consequence.

While we're moving forward, I would like you to take on board that some people with autism do think it is a value judgement. If you don't consider my opinion of value, google will bring up articles on the subject, both from people without autism, and from people with it

Apropos is French

I know. But I suspect that if I said it, it would be another nail of pretentiousness in my coffin.

It's just I'm one of those HF ASD people and a teeeny weeeny bit pedantic.

Since when did "Girl" come to mean "Girl with penis"?

Join the club mate, with the proviso that I don't identify as HFA, and I think it's literal violence to misidentify me. I prefer 'right-on wanker'.

HAHAHAHA @IMightMentionGriddlebone. Good job we have a sense of humour

Well. Gosh. What a load of anger and disbelief, HomeTIRF. Do you leap on any parent with views you dislike and tell them that invalidates their child's diagnosis, or their own?

If I've understood correctly, autism is fairly relevant to the trans issue, because of a child's tendency not to pick up on and follow social norms.

If I've understood correctly, autism is fairly relevant to the trans issue, because of a child's tendency not to pick up on and follow social norms.

Anecdotally, when I first became aware of transgender issues, I did notice that a significant number of females talking about their dysphoria had AS. I have always outwardly supported their right to acceptance, but I did privately think that it might be less that they were truly trans, and more that they were suffering through the unhappy combination that is AS+ female puberty+rigid gender expectations.

I'm glad to have been a few years older than them. Meant no-one told me I was trans, and in the absence of that kind of brainwashing, I read feminist tracts.