PIL and seatbelts (or lack of)

[wibblywobblyfish]

We are very lucky to own a motorhome. It's left hand drive and we generally use it to travel in Europe during the school holidays with our two youngest DC aged 9 and 7. The motorhome has a seatbelt for the driver, passenger and two seatbelts in the back which are used for the children. There are additional places where you can sit, but no seatbelts.

My PIL have asked if they can come with us on our summer trip to France and drop them with their friends, we would then carry on down through France, into Italy etc. We would then potentially collect them on the way back. PIL are only in their late 70's, however FIL is quite infirm at the moment and not able to make this trip by any other means.

My DP has already agreed to this and I'm not happy. PIL seem to think it's ok just to sit in the back of the motorhome with no seatbelts. PIL are of an age where they have a piss poor attitude to car safety, there is history here. They thought it would be ok to hold newborn DD in the back of the car instead of using the car seat. When older, DD told me that they hadn't strapped DS into his seat and had driven through the city centre. I haven't let them take the DC out in the car unsupervised after this as they genuinely do not see the issue as all is well that ends well. FIL also drinks and drives and MIL just rolls her eyes.

AIBU for refusing to take PIL? I'm not having two 10st unsecured adults sitting in the back of my motorhome with my DC? DP thinks I'm being over the top and this in turn worries me about his attitude to car safety and what happens when I'm not there. DP thinks I just don't like his parents (I'm very fond of MIL but FIL irritates me hugely) and I'm looking for reasons not to take them. I've suggested that they look into the expense of having two additional 3 point harnesses fitted as a middle ground. I don't see what else I can do!!

No seatbelt, no travel. Ever.

You're not unreasonable in the slightest.

I don't know about France but wouldn't it be illegal to have them in without seat belts in the U.K.? Or is the law different for motor homes? But anyway you're not BU. It's incredibly dangerous, more so for the other passengers (if they get hit by them during a crash). No way I'd allow it. Your compromise is more than reasonable.

No way on earth. In a crash they would kill however was 'in front' of them according to which direction the crash momentum sent them.

Obvious solution is they pay for additional seat belts to be fitted, no seat belts no lift. Stick to your guns!

I wouldn't trust them to remain seated and not get up and wander round, even if you got more seat belts fitted.

Gosh no you're not unreasonable. Look into have extra seatbelts fitted .
Even if they were your best friends there's still no way it'd be happening.

Your not being unreasonable. Remind them it's not just about the fine when caught.

I would also assume a motor home has one seatbelt per bed. So 4 seat belts would be 4 beds, where are they planning to sleep?

The answer is no.

It isn't age, just stupidity. My parents are older and we were in car seats when they were first invented.

I 100% wouldn't do it.

I'm amazed your husband thinks it's ok though-will he take them whether you go or not?!

Nope. I stopped the car and refused to move until my friend strapped in. She thought it would be fine because we were only going 10 minutes. She acted like I was going crazy.

MrEBear, you are correct, it does sleep 4 however the overnight wouldn't be an issue as I think their friends live ressonably close to Calais.

It is compulsory to wear a seat belt in France, front and rear if fitted. So the best thing to do would be to have extra seat belts fitted, then they must wear them.

Quite aside from them getting hurt in an accident 2 adults could kill you or dc if flung towards you with sufficient force.
Yanbu

Why don't they fly and meet you in France? And hire a car to get them between hotel / lodgings and where you are. Also saves you having to ferry them around. And gives them independence.

Pretty sure the law for motorhomes is that there must be a seatbelt fitted for each passenger? Therefore if there are only 4 seat belts fitted then it's only allowed to carry 4 passengers? I had a 7.5 ton horse lorry with a fully fitted kitchen/living space and that was the law for that vehicle.

It's not illegal in the UK to travel in a motor home without a seatbelt of the year are not already fitted. www.ukmotorhomes.net/motorhome-faqs/17-motorhome-seatbelts

I wouldn't do it though due to the risks to them and also your kids with having two unrestrained adults in the back. I'd ask them to pay for seat belts to be fitted. How about lap belts? Not ideal but better than nothing?

Not sure where 'of the year' came from!

Lushka - thats one of the issues - Our motorhome is ancient and falls under the legislation you mention!

No way would I carry passengers without seat belts, regardless of whether it was illegal or not. Do they not realise that they're missiles who could kill their son, DIL and grandchildren if you're involved in a crash? Have they seen YouTube videos of that happening? Perhaps you could show one to your DH to get him on your side?

You can often buy seatbelts for next to nothing from scrap yards for older vehicles.

Motor home and seat belt law info here and here

However on this link it states that adding seat belts where none exist is not a good idea.

"if the original design did not incorporate belts, there’s strong reason to say they shouldn’t be added. Even if mounting points are accessible, there’s every chance the rest of the conversion didn’t take into account the adding of belts.
For example, a basic seat base with no metal framework will simply collapse in a crash."

It looks like giving your PIL a lift is going to be rather reckless.

I would do it if seatbelts can be fitted. Otherwise not.

If you thought it was fine then it would be fine - but if you were talked into it and then something happened it would be very difficult to live with

Pretty sure the law for motorhomes is that there must be a seatbelt fitted for each passenger?

Only for forward- or rear-facing seats. A lot of motorhomes (including ours) have side-facing rear seats. They are not required to have seat belts because, in the event of an impact, the seat belt itself causes a lot of internal damage, presumably because most impacts are side-on, relatively speaking, if you're a side-facing passenger.

How this squares with the requirement to have children under 12 yoa in a car seat and/or booster seat with seat belt, I have no idea. We take the view that they're not allowed to travel in our MH, but that's partly so that we don't ever have to take DP's badly-behaved nephews and nieces anywhere with us.

No seatbelt equals no travel in this house.

My MIL never believed seatbelts were either necessary or compulsory in the back. I was driving on one occasion and clearly remember telling her that ALL passengers in a vehicle I was responsible for would wear seatbelts or we would be going nowhere. She didn't seem to get that back seat passengers can become flying projectiles in any accident if unrestrained. Nor did she get that this can be fatal not just to them, but also to the driver and front seat passenger, who they can strike as they fly forward.

I never allowed it. Stick to your guns. If necessary get the additional seatbelts fitted. Always refuse to drive off if any passenger isn't belted in. I still do that with my dds' friends, and they are all late teens verging on adults now. I haven't had any trouble at all.

I wouldn't trust them to remain seated and not get up and wander round, even if you got more seat belts fitted.

I've been known to pop in the back to go to the lav while travelling.

Mind you, the lav is forward-facing, so should probably have a seat belt fitted.