Is this dentist just wanting the money?

[PETRONELLAS]

DS 8 has most adult teeth but still emerging. Looks crowded but not wonky.
Dentist went apoplectic when I said I'd yet to make an appointment with the orthodontist he'd referred us to. Orthodontist reception has been on phone now but only offer appointments in school time on NHS.
Dentist said himself it's young to be referred but 'good to get into the system'.
How much will the dentist get if we go to his chosen orthodontist? All feels very grabby. Dentist is quite rude anyway, fake chit chat, doesn't settle children or explain what he's doing.

What's the point of making an appointment with someone who can't do anything for you? My dd looks like she will most definitely need braces but her dentist said you have to wait for all adult teeth first. So if your ds still has some to grow in, he doesn't need to see anyone yet, surely? Is it a private or nhs one they want you to see?

Wish my eldest had been referred when he was 8 and clearly needed orthodontic help! Ended up waiting for all his adult teeth to come through by which time he was 16 and the extractions and subsequent treatment with braces was way more complex and painful!

You may have to wait months for an appointment anyway so agree with your dentist that its good to get into the system

When a mouth is crowded the new teeth sometimes end up growing in front or behind other teeth. Then it's a mess. I was like that. I ended up with lots of teeth out, uncomfortable braces and years of work until my teeth were straight.

Book the child in. See what is said. And try and change dentists if you don't like the one your with. I changed dentists within my practice and got a much nicer one.

Out of genuine curiosity, if you have to wait for the adult teeth to come through, what will an orthodontist do before that? Presumably you won't know exactly what needs to be done or how the mouth will turn out exactly until they're all through?

Not sure the dentist gets paid for referrals - unless there is dodgy stuff in the back ground - generally areas have assigned orthodontists is my understanding.

An initial referral may take several months to be seen anyway but on top of that there is an assessment process to go through to see whether you have to pay or not (its done on a points system so so man points for interference with bite, so many for misplaced, so many points for x y and z and then they tot up to see if you are entitled to NHS funding or not. So book them in and go with the flow on this one - listen to what they say about recommended treatment and you are entitled to a second opinion but referral will have to come from your dentist again.

If you don't like your dentist - move.

Try holidays for appts if you can't make school day work somehow

I started treatment at the orthodontist before all my adult teeth came through. I have a small mouth and big teeth, they did something to give the adult teeth enough room to come in. When then did, I got standard train tracks to get them inline.

Your dentist won't give two hoots about how much money you're spending with the orthodontist, he won't see any of it.

It took nearly 7 months for us to be able to make an initial appointment with the Orthodontist we were referred to as they didn't have room to take us on. We also had to take a school time appointment. They took photos and had a look. As DD1 hadn't got all her adult teeth they said they'd contact us again in 18 months. Just had that appointment and as all her teeth are through she's now on the waiting list for braces. The waiting list is approx 6 months.
See the orthodontist now as you'll get in the queue so when your child has all adult teeth he'll receive treatment quicker.

Our lovely NHS dentist has said all my kids will need orthodontist, teeth out and braces (got my teeth unfortunately)

Eldest is 10, and there still has been no referral yet. His teeth actually look much better than when he was 8! I think it's a bit daft sending an 8 year old.

Dentist going ape shit doesn't sound very professional. There are far better dentists out there- my kids actually like our dentist and ask when they are going (even though DS1 had a teeny filling and was nagged over his tooth brushing ever visit for ages!)

What's the point of making an appointment with someone who can't do anything for you?

How do you know they can't do anything yet if you don't see them? Also I know in my area now it can be a year/18 month wait to see an NHS orthodontist, so dentists are deliberately referring patients early so that they get to see the orthodontist by the time they need the treatment rather than waiting till that point to even get put on the list.

I had braces from the age of 10 because all of my adult teeth were growing in, but they were crowding at the front and had started to cross over each other, and had they be left it would have got even worse. When I was first referred aged about 8 it wasn't an active problem yet but I would have serious issues in the future if nothing was done, so while the orthodontist couldn't start treatment, he could keep an eye on my teeth and chart the changes so he could decide when I was ready to start treatment.

On my first visit the orthodontist basically just took X-rays, teeth moulds and made notes as to the placement of my teeth in my mouth and then made me an appointment for something like 6 months time. Again at that second appointment, he did the same and compared them to the records from last time to see what progress my teeth had made in that time, same again for the third appointment and it was only on around the fourth appointment (so around 2 years after I had first seen the orthodontist) after he had done the same tests and looked at the results that he said I was ready to start treatment.

Originally he had said that it might take up to three years before I needed the braces, but because he was keeping tabs on their progress and I had regular checkups with him, he had seen that I was ready after only two years, and had it been left another year I would have needed much more work and invasive treatment. By this time all my adult teeth had come through and he could give me removable retainers to try and slow down the crowding, and on my sixth or seventh appointment I got a couple of teeth removed and my traintrack braces fixed that stayed for the next 2 1/2 years.

I'm a dentist if you are in the UK there is no money in referrals for the dentist whether private or NHS
while most chldren need to wait until all adult teeth are through some specific type of orthodontic problem benefit from early intervention especially if a skeletal element to cause of problem
whether orthodontics is available on NHS depends on severity of problem I think anyone being seriously considered for early referral probably does not have a mild problem it may not be obvious looking at current teeth that there is a severe problem developing which your dentist may have spotted even if his chairside manner leaves somethng to be desired

obviously I'm not an orthodontist and I have not seen your child so my advice is very non-specific but I would advise you see the orthodontist just to understand what the problem is more and whether your child would benefit from early intervention
Orthodontic patients are mainly school children( 90% of them anyway) so obviously they can't all be seen in holidays and after school in fact the vast majority will need to be seen in school time that is just logistics.

Those practices that do provide both NHS and private ortho will generally reserve late afternoon early evening and before 9am appointments for working adults and private patients this is true all over UK our main orthodontic referral practices of which there are 2 in a 20 miles radius both only see NHS patients between 9.30 and 4.30 this is reasonable in my opinion

My DH had horrible teeth because his mother said the same about orthodontists. Grabby and needless in such young age.

At least he could afford for a adult treatment and they could fix his smile.

Sounds like your dentist needs to work on his manners, but I expect he just wants your DS to have the proper care for his teeth, and is just a bit exasperated at people (in his view) not understanding how important good teeth health is. I am not saying that you don't understand this! - but just to explain why he might be coming across as rude.

My DD got a referral to an orthodontist a year ago, and we have yet to get an appointment, as they keep sending us appointments when we are away on holiday, and every time I ask for another date, we get put in the back of the queue. So in a way your dentist is right, just get into that system, as it is so difficult to get in.

Orthodontic patients are mainly school children( 90% of them anyway) so obviously they can't all be seen in holidays and after school in fact the vast majority will need to be seen in school time that is just logistics.

TBH my favourite thingabout seeing the orthodontist was that the closest NHS one to me, as a child, was in a town 40 miles away so I'd get at least an afternoon off school, just for a 10/15 minute appointment!

My parents were always working so my grandparents used to take me and now that they've both passed I remember those one to one afternoons fondly. I have a lot of younger cousins (I'm the eldest of 22 cousins on that side of the family) and individual time with our grandparents was rare, so those afternoons were like golddust for me.

We'd usually try to get an afternoon appointment so they could pick me up from school late morning/lunchtime, we'd drive the hour/hour and a half it took (Lake District so it was mostly rural country roads) to get to the town the orthodontist was in, then we'd either go for lunch and then the appointment or the appointment then lunch (depending on the time) and then I'd get a couple of hours of shopping/wandering round town/chatting, tea and cakes in a little teashop with my grandparents before the drive home.

He won't get anything for the referral.

Thank you melj1213, clearly I didn't know, which is why I subsequently asked. Your answer makes a lot of sense. I was going from my own dentist's advice so far, so perhaps there is no wait list issue where I am or the dentist has (wrongly?) not advised ortho appointment yet in my dd's case.

I had orthodontist treatment at 12. From x-rays and checking the placement of my current teeth he recommended some extractions to give my teeth room to come in.

Like Blobby10, my (private) dentist left Son's (NHS) orthodontic referral later than he should. Son began his treatment at 14, which the orthodontist said was almost too late - it's to do with catching their growth spurt or something. He's just had his train tracks on two years later. Orthodontic treatment can be prolonged - son had to wear braces to widen the roof of his mouth and change his bite, then have extractions and now train tracks. I wish we'd gone when he was 8 for the orthodontist to say, 'it's too soon, come back when you are 11' or whatever. It sounds like your dentist, whatever his other faults, is getting the early opinion of an expert, and that has to be a good thing.

I doubt your dentist was 'apoplectic' about it! 8 does sound quite young but you are best to go to the appointment. If your DC is too young to do anything the orthodontist will tell you so. My DC was referred at 11, treatment started at 12 years.

Thanks loads for detailed considered replies, I will make the appointment.
Actually, Bunny, he was verging on aggressive - the receptionist looked really embarrassed and said it had been a really stressful day. Perhaps we all have different interpretations of 'apoplectic'.

My son's school was perfectly OK with daytime orthodontic appointments, as long as you let them know, and they went straight back to school , after.
The orthodontist surgery in our town was only open on one day a week (that may be different now) as it was a branch of their main surgery, 20 miles away!. It seemed that kids from all the surrounding secondary schools congregated there every Tuesday! But they were very efficient with their appointments, and everyone was seen and sent on their way quickly.
Basically, it was half an hour out of school on a Tuesday, or , a half day when you wanted, to the main branch. Obviously the local option was better!
My son was referred at 13 and a half, with treatment lasting 18 months.