To not let DSs go to different Scout groups?

[bikeybo]

My boys are 10 and 12. 12 year old joined Scouts when he was 10 and now youngest son has just been offered a place. Oldest has a massive strop on and doesn't want him coming to the same group. Youngest likes the idea because he will be with his brother. Who do I pick? Because the outcome only suits one of them. I'm thinking the one that's easier for me!! So they have to go to the same? AIBU?

For me this is a no brained. DS2has been on the waiting list for somewhere he wants to go and now has a place. He's happy. It's also convenient for you. All good.

DS1 is (sorry) acting like a spoilt brat. He doesn't get a say on which children the Scout group allows to join. And he needs to learn that.

Typo: no brainer

Tough shit for DS1 view here too. My DS know they have a year or so at Beavers together before they move, then cubs, now onto scouts. DS1 gets a wee annoyed at times, but I am not going to two different units, when the one he is at is so bloody good.

I'm in the same situation only with Brownies. I'm afraid dd1 is just going to have to lump it!

What's easiest for you!

Yep, same here. My youngest DS is due to move up and his brothers are not impressed as they still have a year before they go explorers. They'll just have to suck it up, I'm not moving him to a different group when all of them have been through the same one.

Tell him he can move if he's that bothered - I bet he won't as it'll mean leaving friends.

DS1 and DS2 should be Scouts together.

I have a similar problem. My two are 9 and nearly 7 and up until now have been happy doing the same activities (sometimes in a different group but at the same time/place etc).

They've both decided to drop dance as they've done two years and are bored of it so we've said they can do a new activity and are on the hunt for one. Ds1 desperately wants to do something on his own but they have similar interests and they've both settled on wanting to do some kind of martial art like karate or ju jitsu. Ds1 has stropped and said that ds2 can choose first and then he'll purposely choose the other martial art option so that he has something that's just his.

Whilst I do get his point to an extent, we have limited time and if they both want to do a martial art then we've said they have to choose the same one as it makes logistics of going every week a lot simpler. Ds1 has to suck it up essentially.

Why does ds1 not want him coming to the group?

Could you get him to explain calmly what his objection is to it?
Do they get on normally?

While I can have some small amount of sympathy for a kid who doesn't want their sibling encroaching on "their" thing - he doesn't "own" scouts and if the younger brother wants to join this particular group he shouldn't be disallowed just because his brother stamps his feet.

I'm a guide leader and we often have this come up with our girls. Our pack was split in two so we have two groups at the same time and day in the same location (different halls though) so it seems obvious to split siblings however it causes huge problems for parents as the two packs have different timetables so will do trips and off site activities at different times. Much easier for siblings to be in the same pack for parents and so the children don't miss out on activities.

I'm a brown owl and currently have two lots of sisters who are at different groups. Makes no difference to me, but for the girls it was massive that they didn't want their sister at the group. (Strangely, one of the sibling groups is 3 sisters, 2 with me, 1 elsewhere, the other sister would much rather have her own space and doesn't get on with the other 2 as well as they get on with each other, so mum agreed they could be split as they wished).
I do get it and think if they want to be split you should try to accommodate them if it's possible to your weeks routine.

Will DS2 give his brother plenty of space or latch onto him?

If it's anything like our Group they'll be in different Patrols, so won't do that much together.

I can kind of understand. I always felt more self-conscious and unable to be myself when my sisters were there (and my mum was also a pack/unit leader at times) and much preferred being in a group without them. It was so much better for my emotional development - and it was still hard, feeling slightly spied on knowing that the leaders might still discuss me with my mum at meetings, not in a bad way but just mentioning how I'd reacted to something or whatever, and I hated that so much. I needed somewhere that I could just be me. Of course this was part of a much larger issues, obviously, but still - nobody from the outside would have known, and there would have been no way I could have explained it to anyone. The most I'd have said was that I would rather that we were in different groups, and if that had been ignored, then I might either have quit, or just continued to feel constantly scrutinised and not ever developed any confidence.

I think if there's any way that you could split them, it might be good.

As the older sibling I sympathise with DS1.

Is the group big enough that he will get his own space? Have a word with the leader and ask that they don't put them in the same group for activities (they may well separate siblings as standard anyway).

I personally think it's often better for them to have their own space.

I come from it as the middle dc for whom I wasn't brilliant socially, but siblings were worse and so clung to me.
It's very difficult making friends when you have a sibling clinging. It means that when partners are required you end up always with the sibling.
Siblings also tend to be less tolerant of each other, and can be a bit tell tales on each other. (just been dealing with that in a group today)

Well I think it is tough - DS1 doesn't run scouts, it's not up to him. He can tell his brother to not talk to him or whatever at scouts if he's that bothered, but DS2 will be wanting to be friends with the children his own age who are starting at the same time as him.

I mean really - they presumably share other spaces (school at some point)
It's ludicrous.
What will happen if you refuse this place for DS2 - will he have to go on the waiting list for another group and wait longer to join?

I would suggest to DS1 that he needs to put his objections to his brother joining to the scout leaders to see what they think of them - If he thinks he's being reasonable he won't mind doing that, if he knows he being horrid to his little brother then he'll back off a bit.
Trying to exclude someone because they happen to be your brother is not very 'Scoutly'.

Siblings aren't always clingey though. If it's a fairly big pack, they will be on different sixes/sets and barely see each other. Are they at the same school? It's one of those things which is just a suck it up thing not being an only child tbh - I wasn't too traumatised having my sister's at brownies etc and believe me we hated each other.

And our akala actively ensures my DS are NOT paired up for anything.

Not sure what the answer is (mine were all in Scouts and now cadets together fwiw) but bear in mind that the age group for scouts spans 10-14.5. with all the differences in maturity, emotional and physical development that brings. A 12yo at secondary has a very different outlook to a Y5.

I don't know. On one side, he's had several years on his own doing Scouts, so a couple of years with his brother shouldn't be a problem, but on the other hand, that's been his "space" for several years, and he probably feels a bit resentful that his little brother is coming along and (in his eyes) getting in the way.

I don't think he's being especially horrid, he's being a kid who presumably doesn't want to hang around with his little brother out of school all the time.

They should go to the same group. Then they get to go to camp at the same time, and you get a weekend to yourself.

1- will DS1 get a place at another scout group soon, or is there a waiting list anyway?
2- when is ds1 old enough for explorers?

He wouldn't need to wait, as they offered him any group in our area (3 different troops). DS2 can move up when he is 14.

Thanks all

My answer would depend on how they are day to day. So if ds2 is clingy to ds1 i wouldnt let him join because i dont think that it is fair on ds1 if his brother is a tag-a-long.