To hate the word tolerance when trotted about for positive messages?

[quencher]

When used as a positive at gay or race issues. Any one who uses the word is basically saying "am ok with your view but I don't agree with it". Tolerance is not acceptance. Tolerance is not embracive.
Tolerance is allowing someone to believe what they want as long as it does not affect you. More like leaving them to their belief even though you don't agree. So, why do people love the word so much?
When people are fighting to be accepted, no one wants to be tolerated like a bug bear you can't get ride off.

It's meant to say "rid of" not ride.

YANBU. Gee thanks for tolerating me but I'd rather you didn't feel you had to.

Yabu. People don't have to embrace things that they disapprove of. It is their right to hold any opinion they choose. What isn't their right is to behave in a way that oppresses others, for ex by not giving employment to a gay person.

Tolerance is just another word for respect, ie not necessarily agreeing with a persons opinion/way of life but respecting their right to have that opinion/lifestyle.

Jennifer do you think that people just don't understand it or are they actually saying what they truly feel? If it's the latter, it's really sad. People would rather be better off with saying, I hate you but I will put up with you for whatever reason. Most, because the law says we should put up with you and not say what We really feel about your race or sexual preference in a derogative way.

not necessarily agreeing with a persons opinion/way of life but respecting their right to have that opinion/lifestyle. Being black, Asian or gay is none of what you have stated. People don't choose it because it's a style choice.
I can understanding tolerance when talking about religion but not things people can't choose as a way of life.

You can't force anyone to accept or embrace. You can force people to tolerate.

It's like policing people's behaviour but not their thoughts.

Tolerance is just another word for respect, i.e. not necessarily agreeing with a persons opinion/way of life but respecting their right to have that opinion/lifestyle.
^^ This. You can tolerate something that does affect you. My mum has been homophobic in the past. That affected me. I detested it but I tolerated it because she was my mother and she was entitled to her view just the same as I was.
You don't have to agree with everyone's views. But you should respect their right to have them and that's where tolerance comes in.

It's true that people don't choose skin colour or sexuality and in an ideal world these things would not be a reason to dislike or judge a person. But you can't force people to feel a certain way. All you can do is have legal protection to stop work place discrimination etc so that for ex homophobic people cannot cause harm to a gay colleagues career and educate children so they grow up to know that no one group of people is better or worse than any other based on ethnicity or sexuality and hope that over time society changes for the better.

Society does change. Was watching something on tv yesterday about 1980s television and what was 'acceptable' then would be seen as absolutely awful today, so things are moving in the right direction.

I am no keen on it being used.

People being all smug because they tolerate disabled people

"People being all smug because they tolerate disabled people hmm"

I think you might be misunderstanding.

I don't think people are smug because they tolerate anyone. I think they are likely to be pissed off because the law and societal expectations force them to tolerate people and things they would much rather not.

I agree tolerance and acceptance are not the same thing. My child has severe learning difficulties. I want acceptance of their differences.

""Tolerance is just another word for respect, ""

No it isn't.

On the other thread about homophobia, I bought up LDs, because it's a similar battle.

Tolerance means that I still hold prejudice and I'm a closet bigot, but because the law says different, I'll not voice my views in public.

It's still not seeing others, for whatever 'difference' they have, as equals, with the same Human Rights.

I think you might be misunderstanding

No.

I do get what you're saying, but it would be unrealistic to have everyone agreeing with one another and believing the same things. I think the idea of tolerance is about not necessarily disagreeing with, but accepting and having respect for people's beliefs or ways of life that are different to how we choose to live our own. That's how I see tolerance anyway. For example I'm not religious at all, I can't relate to it but I'm tolerant of those who are - I accept it and respect it, I can't really embrace it and "be" it because I don't believe it - does that make sense? Trying really hard not to be inflammatory here!

I think they are likely to be pissed off because the law and societal expectations force them to tolerate people and things they would much rather not

If we continue to use weasly words like 'tolerate' when it comes to the basic humanity of acceptance of people with disabilities then we will continue to produce people who are 'pissed off' at being 'forced' to accept them.

I know what you mean but I think there'll always be people who, for whatever reason, will dislike gay people, black people etc on the inside and the message for them is to suppress that and tolerate it. You can't force people to be accepting of something they don't want to accept but you can change how they behave towards that person or group of people

"If we continue to use weasly words like 'tolerate' when it comes to the basic humanity of acceptance of people with disabilities then we will continue to produce people who are 'pissed off' at being 'forced' to accept them."

Possibly. But tough shit to them. They have to behave decently whether they want to or not. You can't police people's thoughts. You can police their behaviour.

I think tolerance is fine. There a lot of things that people do that I don't agree with but it's not my right to verbalise that opinion or let it effect our friendship. Tolerance.

Namechange I know! Like it's a choice to be disabled. There are some views we can hold that is changeable or relative whether it's good or bad. But when you can't change that person surely acceptance would be what is expected for who they are as people. To tolerate means you do have a belief that those people are problem for just being who they are and that affects you as person when they invade your personal space. It's something you don't really like.

have everyone agreeing with one another and believing the same things. I think the idea of tolerance is about not necessarily disagreeing with, but accepting and having respect for people's beliefs or ways of life that are different to how we choose to live our own. That's not what am saying though, is it ? We are not talking about beliefs here. To say that beliefs we hold tars everyone of that race, gender or disability is grouping those people into one without looking at them as individual human beings. Not debating their behaviour as Individual people.
We are talking about things that are not changeable whether you debate it or not. Being disabled is not a way of life and it's not going to change for them. They don't choose it but it's part of them being human. It's not a way of life to be white but cultural differences individual people ascribe to are.

Am not saying that tolerance should never be used as a word. There are somethings we can tolerate. We can have a choice in a belief system and tolerate those who don't agree with. As long as you have choice in the matter then it should be ok either tolerate or disagree.
If we know that those people have no choice then acceptance is acceptable and appropriate to value them equally. For example, If you met a Person who behaved horribly, it's ok to hate or tolerate that person.
However, to ascribe that particular behaviour to everyone of that colour or disability, hight or sex, being gay etc is wrong.

I don't recall any one time where I have seen or used the word tolerance with regard to any form of disability. It doesn't make sense within that context.

"To tolerate means you do have a belief that those people are problem for just being who they are and that affects you as person when they invade your personal space. It's something you don't really like."

There are people who think like that. They are obviously arseholes- but we can't deny they exist. And we should be doing everything we can to change them, and make sure that people don't grow up like them any more. But in the meantime, we can force them, by law and by societal pressure not to act on that mindset. To tolerate.

sorry for being thick but I don't understand your comment Bertrand.

Am I an arsehole for feeling that way about all sorts of people and groups we have to rub along with like th EDL or KKK etc?

More like leaving them to their belief even though you don't agree

People have the right to hold certain views though. I'm thinking about Glen Hoddle's revolting views on disability.

He lost his job as England manager over expressing them back in the day didn't he? (Quite right).

But people have every right to hold repulsive views. We can't dictate what people get to think and feel.

I have certainly seen people talking of tolerating people with learning difficulties.

YANBU. Tolerance to me smacks of "I'm better than you, but I"m going to allow you to keep on keeping on because I'm the bigger person here" - it feels condescending and patronizing, and like I'm a burden that they're so graciously shouldering.

I don't want to be TOLERATED, I want to be embraced, loved, warts and all.