Or is this a pretty bad attitude?

[Thechipsaredown]

Two incidents today that have left me feeling disappointed in my DS(12).

Had him and some friends out today and we were in a cafe. It was late on and we were the only ones there. The staff were clearing away and I started clearing away our table. My DS pipes up "What are you doing mum. That's their job?" I told him that's a pretty horrible attitude and there's nothing wrong with me clearing up after us. Left it at that as we had company.

Tonight, he's on XBox and as usual him and his pals are winding each other up. I tell him it's time for a bath, he tells his friends. I then hear him say "and you're so poor because your mums paying us to be your friend". I told him to get off and he knew straight away I was annoyed. He said his friend had said something similar to him about, like "you're not going in a bath. You can't afford the water".

Now, I know they're joking, but I feel he seems to forget that there are people out there who can't afford water, who are working minimum wage jobs, etc. I told him that we're actually pretty skint compared to the people he's friends with and maybe he should think about that before making crass jokes. He knows we rent a pretty crap flat, I'm a single parent; working full time and I really don't think I spoil him.

Am I being too hard on him at 12? Or does he need his eyes opened?

You were right to pull him up in the cafe, as long as it was gentle, but you're overreacting majorly to the jokey comment.

Massive over-reaction.
The cafe - both of you are right! You were being helpful and he was right in thinking yes it IS their job. Personally I would react the same as you in the cafe but brush it off. He said it, you told him no harm in helping and that should be it. But you seem hung up in something that 'isn't there'.
Bath issue - you admit it is jokey. They are 12 and insults is the 'thing of 12 year old boys'. Normal behaviour.
Get over it. (I mean that nicely!)

You definitl y weren't being unreasonable with the first one, I find it so rude when children say 'it's the cleaners job', horrible attitude.

But with the second I do think you were being unreasonable. My mum used to listen I to my conversations (I know you weren't) and take them out of context.

Okay, thanks all. Perhaps you're right. Probably said on different days, I'd have let the second one go. It just came across as snobby considering the earlier incident .

You told him to have a bath when his friends were round??!!! Not cool!!

His friends weren't round.

Nah, I don't think he has a really bad attitude. Just sounds like a normal kid to me tbh.

I don't let DH clear dishes in cafes. It makes it harder in the staff as they have a system and your stacking doesn't help. I top well and am polite but no, it's silly to do heir job.

The second one, I might have a conversation about how someone might feel if they overhead that. Mean and nasty comments as jokes are the norm but I do think it can be gently challenged.

Cafe - ok

Xbox - ott, he's having 'banter' with his mates

It depends on what you mean by "clearing up" in the cafe. Were you scraping the plates and stacking them?

I'm tended to agree with your son there.

As for the X-box convo, sounds like banter to me. Could you hear what his friends were saying to him?

I understand what you mean about the cafe incident, I'm sure your son really didn't mean anything snobby about it, but I think it's reasonable to say 'Yes, but working in a cafe is busy and tiring and it's nice to be helpful, isn't it? Nobody's too good to stack a few plates' in a light-hearted way.

The swapping of insults with his mates is just standard 12-year-old boy stuff and I wouldn't worry about that to be honest.

No, it was just crisp packets, juice cans, and slush cups.

I couldn't hear, but he told me after he got off because he knew I wasn't impressed by what I heard from him. I told him that no, I don't expect him to say nothing in return, but that I found both sides to be a bit a thoughtless in what they were joking about.

In the cafe - I do that with the plates, just because someone has a job to do doesn't mean you can't be polite and helpful.

My motto for 2017 is going to be "banter is bollocks". If it's banter you can be as cruel, as racist or as sexist as you like and it's just ' banter'. Bollocks.

Children learn to be kind from their parents. If an adult male 'bantered' with a MN mummy, hell would be rained down on him for being an oppressor of massive proportions.

I would not tell my sons off, but I would discuss conversations like the one you overheard with them. I think the way you did. This way he is making informed choices when he jokes. If no one tells him how is he supposed to know? If we want sensitive partners and husbands we need to help our sons grow into that role.

Agree with others - the comment in the café was ugly and you were right to pull him up (hopefully just enough to make him blush in front of his mates and hope they didn't notice).

The comment he made to his mate was nothing I'd worry about.

The first one is him learning, I always clear up but I do remember my DD asking why if people are paid followed by many examples were the person being paid is not helped. I have learnt the hard way by judging one sided conversation on their consoles. There may be years of this to come and many battles but as you set a good examples hopefully it will all be good in the end.

I'm shocked you arrange baths for a 12 yo. Don't most kids do that by themselves long before age 12 ?
Anyway that's not the point 😬

I don't think you were wrong in the cafe. He was probably embarrassed though. Don't ask me why , I just know my son gets embarrassed at stuff like that.

The later stuff was just banter but like you I'd probably have said something just to keep a lid on it.

I think you are over-reacting to both.
In the cafe, he asked a question, you answered it. He learns from that.
With the x-box, it's a conversation with his mates, nothing wrong with that.
He's 12 - a child, not yet an adult, don't expect him to behave like an adult.

Agree with MyWineTime tbh.