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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be unhappy about new annual leave rules

34 replies

Mnetname500 · 01/08/2016 18:53

My boss has just put out a memo that we have to give 3 months notice for when we want annual leave. It's always been a month and I was planning on taking a holiday at the end of October but not put in a request yet, now it will be possibly declined.

I looked online and I can only find info on minimum notice required not if they're allowed to make it 3 months. Has anyone got any knowledge in if this is legal?

OP posts:
LotsOfShoes · 01/08/2016 18:57

Yanbu to be annoyed - that's quite a long notice, it's always been a month in jobs I have worked. Not sure why you think it would be illegal though.

scurryfunge · 01/08/2016 18:57

Not sure I am of any help but our annual leave rules vary depending on the time of year. I.e we can't take leave in busy periods - summer holidays, Christmas, etc. Probably depends on what your contract states.

topcat2014 · 01/08/2016 18:58

Very easy way to kill staff morale - does he want people to work for him?

Employers can put some restrictions in (ie no holidays during Christmas etc in retail), but a blanket 3 months for whatever sounds excessive.

Why does he need this much? Is he also planning to stop people carrying over unused holidays in to new years?

It is probably legal - but sounds at the upper limit. Generally, employers ask for notice of around double the amount of time off - ie four weeks for a fortnight off, 2 days for one day etc.

Original poster
Mnetname500 · 01/08/2016 19:00

I just wandered if there was any kind of law to do with it. If there isn't then fair enough my boss can do that but I am annoyed about it, although I understand her reasons for doing it. Sometimes I just get run down and think 'I need a holiday' then put in my months notice and get the instant relief it's only a month to go. 3 months seems like a lifetime

OP posts:
Energumene · 01/08/2016 19:00

I'd imagine it would depend on what your contract said. If your contract states one month, then this would be varying your terms and conditions of employment, so likely to be something they can't just do by memo. But if there is no mention within the contract, this may be perfectly legal, if a pain in the bum.

I'd get the request in for October asap, as you may be fine. It would be an unreasonable employer who turned you down because of a newly imposed time frame, if there were no other requests in from others that clashed with yours.

WhimsicalWinnifred · 01/08/2016 19:02

Is there no leway? I have no idea if that's how you write leway but I'm going with it.

My old and current work asked for a months notice but if you asked for holiday in a weeks time they'd probably be fine.

You're not going to know three months in advance about funerals/doctors appts etc so how will that work?

How many people's holidays roll into the neXT year? I think that's a privilige for senior management only if my work history is anything to go by.

Original poster
Mnetname500 · 01/08/2016 19:03

I work in care so obviously staff are required all year around. I've always understood the no annual leave at Christmas that's fine. The reason for it being 3 months is they say they're spending a lot of money on agency fees to cover holiday. In truth we don't have enough staff to cover day to day shifts atm let alone holiday.

OP posts:
MarcelineTheVampire · 01/08/2016 19:03

I would guess that's this so they can plan in any holidays to see if there are gaps in the workforce. In a previous place of work they asked for all holiday requests for 1 week + be booked a year in advance.

I'm sure there is some flexibility in this but it just helps to have these dates in mind so you can flex your workforce accordingly.

PovertyPain · 01/08/2016 19:06

A month's notice sounds like luxury, actually so does three months. I'm so glad to be out of the health service, we had to give a years notice. Of course the forms were put out in the morning, which meant the night staff got the left overs. Angry

Lorelei76 · 01/08/2016 19:31

Is this for any annual leave, so even for just a day?

Do you belong to a union who might be able to advise?

m0therofdragons · 01/08/2016 19:32

My parents ask for 3 months notice as appointments are sent to customers in advance so need to know they can staff the appointments. I'm assuming it's to help with staffing. Dh and I juggle school holiday childcare so basically sit down in January and decide our leave for the year from 1st April onwards so I guess others do that too but must be hard if you're not naturally a planner.

StopHammerTime · 01/08/2016 19:33

Have you worked there for more than 2 years OP?

Ilovefluffysheep · 01/08/2016 19:34

Doesn't help you I know, but try being in the Police. We have to submit our annual leave requests for summer 2017 by next monday!

Masketti · 01/08/2016 19:35

My rule of thumb for my line reports is a month or longer notice for a week or longer holiday and a week or longer notice for a day or two holiday. 3 months is ludicrous.

happypoobum · 01/08/2016 19:38

My sister works for a health trust where you have to give six months notice of annual leave.

Last week in October is half term, so likely to be in demand?

I think your boss should have given you a lead in time, so said we will be brining in this policy wef 1 Sept, which would give people time to submit any requests that they had been considering.

There really isn't anything you can do about it now.

Notthisnotthat · 01/08/2016 19:40

In my work we plan our major holiday annual leave at the start of our leave year. I have children so like 1 week at Easter, 1 week in October and 2 weeks in the summer holidays. This helps with work planning, however leftover days can be requested up to 24 hours in advance.

ExtraHotLatteToGo · 01/08/2016 19:43

I'd put in the leave request ASAP.

I'd also consider looking around, there's a ton of care work jobs available, around here at least, I'd definitely be looking for the most favourable terms & conditions because Christ knows you'll never get paid enough 🙁

💐

Schwabischeweihnachtskanne · 01/08/2016 19:44

The main problem would be if its effective immediately (meaning you thought you could request leave now for October as that was correct under yesterday's rules but isn't allowed under today's rules). A good employer would give 3 months notice of this change for obvious reasons!

If your employer is already struggling to recruit and retain staff their lack of empathy with staff might be the biggest reason!

I work in care too and we are ideally asked to request leave before Christmas for the entire following year (it's in the contract signed upon accepting the job). However the leave we request that way is pretty much guaranteed to be granted, and then once all of that is assigned we can still request any remaining leave as long as we ask before the cut off for the next monthly rota (for logistical reasons). They are also good about compassionate leave with no notice (they don't pay but make no fuss about taking time off if you say you need it) ... and pay a little holiday pay bonus in the July pay packet and a Christmas one in the Christmas packet (not lots but a nice gesture) ... Interestingly our care home is fully staffed - never met an agency staff member in the 9 months I've worked there...

Food for thought...

StopHammerTime · 01/08/2016 19:45

The following is all a bit hollow if you haven't been employed for two years but if you have...

If they are introducing this as a change to your contract they need to get your consent to the proposed variation and/or at least give you a month's notice of the proposed changes. If they don't they are in breach of contract entitling you to resign and claim Constructive Dismissal (this is why 2 years is key, it's the minimum service requirement to have the right to claim CD). However, I doubt you really want to quit your job and the wait a year, and take the risk, for an Employment Tribunal to pay you damages, plus deal with solicitors fees etc...

I suggest writing (always do these things in writing, never over the telephone) to your employer stating that you understand they are seeking to impose a variation to your contract. You do not consent to this change and will stick to your old contract.

See what they come back with, HR will probably want to 'discuss' (i.e. give you what you want, or if they insist ask for a copy of the grievance procedure and submit a grievance. You have plenty in your favour here, don't assume an employer can just do what they want (unless you have less than two years service in which case they can).

Good luck!

HuckleberryGin · 01/08/2016 19:46

If its in your contract then there needs to be consultation and agreement. Are you in a union? If others at work are unhappy you could challenge as a collective.

WhoTheFuckIsSimon · 01/08/2016 19:46

I have to book all annual leave in December for the following april-april period.

So at times that's 15 months notice. Not allowed to leave after December. Or before actually which is annoying if you want to book a big holiday abroad for easter, because they don't tell you till Feb if you've been given your leave,

So doubt there's any law against three months notice.

StopHammerTime · 01/08/2016 19:47

Sorry for a "the" rather than a 'then' (wait a year). Plus forgot to close my brackets in that post. Sorry long day!

backinthebox · 01/08/2016 19:48

I already know when my leave is between now and April 2017. The leave bid opens for May-Oct 2017 in a few weeks. We must bid for complete weeks, can't just take a day here and a day there. I work for an airline, who are busiest over Bank holidays and school holidays. You put in your bid months and months in advance and hope you get something you can work with. If someone books a wedding or throws a big party in the meantime, you just have to hope your monthly roster gets you the time off. If it is a wedding on the August Bank Holiday weekend, you aren't going to get there (ask me how I know!) It's just the way it is in some jobs, you learn to live with it and work the rules as much as is possible.

fiverabbits · 01/08/2016 19:55

My DD has a week off next week, she put this in the holiday book in March. Her Manager has asked her five times if she really has to have the week off as there is nor enough staff which really translates to not getting not getting any holiday at all. On her last 2 weeks off in July she worked both days on each weekend and one overnight shift. The only answer is to keep saying I am having that week off and to go away.

pleasemothermay1 · 01/08/2016 20:07

My husband is not allowed August

No one is its banned they get a lucky dip type system if your name come up your allowed to have 1 week
What the fuck and the govement wonder why people take there kids out of school

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